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Tracing the whale’s trail [Evolution trial, daily thread for 15 Oct]
York Daily Record [Penna] ^ | 15 October 2005 | LAURI LEBO

Posted on 10/15/2005 3:44:16 AM PDT by PatrickHenry

A paleontologist testified in the Dover school board trial about how fossils connect species.

The ancestor of the whale and its first cousin the hippopotamus walked the Earth for 40 million years, munching on plants, before dying out in the ice ages.

Known as the anthracotheres, it became extinct 50 to 60 million years ago, but not before its evolutionary tree diverged — the whale forging into the oceans, the hippopotamus to the African swamps.

Kevin Padian, a University of California-Berkeley paleontologist, told the story of the whale’s journey, along with the travels of its closest living relative, in U.S. Middle District Court Friday to illustrate how the fossil record connects us to our past.

In the First Amendment lawsuit over Dover Area High School’s intelligent design policy, Padian was the plaintiffs’ final science expert to testify. The defense will begin to present its side Monday.

Padian’s testimony was essentially a response to intelligent-design proponents’ claims that paleontology does not account for missing links and the fossil record belies evolutionary theory.

“The problem is that there are no clear transitional fossils linking land mammals to whales,” the pro-intelligent-design textbook “Of Pandas and People” states.

“How many intermediates do you need to suggest relationships?” Padian wondered.

He pointed to numerous transitional fossils as he traced the lineage of the whale to its early ancestors, a group of cloven-hoofed mammals of a group named cetartiodactyla, illustrating the gradual changes of features along the way.

“We think the transitions are pretty good,” he said.

One of Padian’s concerns with intelligent design — the idea that life’s complexities demand an intelligent designer — is that it shuts down the search for answers, he said. “It worries me that students would be told that you can’t get from A to B with natural causes,” he said.

One of the complaints of 11 parents suing the school district is that, after Dover biology students are told about intelligent design, they are referred to “Pandas,” which is housed in the high school library.

While the connection between the whale and hippopotamus is recent, Padian said some of the fossils linking whales to land-dwelling mammals go back to the Civil War but were ignored by the authors of “Pandas.”

The curator of Berkeley’s Museum of Paleontology and author of the “Encyclopedia of Dinosaurs” also testified to the evolutionary link between dinosaurs and birds.

“Pandas” states, “Intelligent design means that various forms of life began abruptly through an intelligent agent, with their distinctive features already intact — fish with fins and scales, birds with feathers, beaks, and wings, etc.”

But Padian, at times affectionately, showed numerous pictures and diagrams of different reptiles evolving from ones possessing scales to ones possessing feathers.

Of a fossil of an archaeopteryx found in the 1860s, Padian said, “Now this is a beautiful critter.”

He also criticized the book’s assertions on homology — the study of similar characteristics of living organisms used to explain their relationships to other organisms.

As he cross-examined Padian, Dover’s attorney Robert Muise brought up one of science’s most ardent evolutionists in raising questions about the fossil record.

Muise asked Padian about the late Stephen Jay Gould’s theory of punctuated equilibrium, the idea that rather than Darwin’s characterization of evolution as slow and gradual change, it may be better described as taking place in fits and starts.

Gould offered the idea as an explanation for the patterns found in the fossil record, which shows abrupt appearances of new species, followed by long stagnant periods with little change.

While “Pandas” argues that intelligent-design proponents consider punctuated equilibrium unprovable, Padian said Gould offered the theory as an explanation to gaps in the fossil record.

“Is natural selection responsible for punctuated equilibrium?” Muise asked at one point.

“That’s a great question,” Padian said. While it may raise questions about the mechanism of evolution, he answered, it doesn’t contradict the idea of common descent.


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: biology; crevolist; dover; evolution; evolutiontheory; fantasy; farfetched; ridiculous; scienceeducation; sillynonsense; talltale; theoryofevolution; whaletail
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To: phantomworker

How about, "If there were no Man would there still be a God?"


101 posted on 10/15/2005 12:37:24 PM PDT by furball4paws (One of the last Evil Geniuses, or the first of their return.)
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To: Stultis
Maybe you're right, but one thing is for sure. Behe's book did get evolutionary biologists interested in figuring out how the bacterial flagellum evolved. A lot of good work has been done because of this, proving Behe wrong, of course.
102 posted on 10/15/2005 12:37:28 PM PDT by curiosity (Cronyism is not Conservative)
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To: gobucks
We had better fall into lockstep w/ the scientists, and the ACLU lawyers that are attacking this school district, why at no charge!, and lo and behold, Republicans will get elected by the Bushel!!

Here's an alternative: Why don't we return to the traditional conservative stance of demanding high and hard-nosed academic standards in all secondary education subjects, including biology but also in the social sciences?

Of course this means that we can't support the teaching of "creationism" or "intelligent design" unless and until some such view genuinely prevails in the market place of scientific ideas, but it ALSO means we can consistently and more effectively fight and reverse the accumulation of leftist, revisionist and identity group oriented pablum everywhere else in the curricula. (And in the sciences too, for instance by pointing out that whereas genuine ecological science can and should be taught, ideologically oriented "environmentalism" must and should be excluded.)

103 posted on 10/15/2005 12:40:50 PM PDT by Stultis
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To: Antonello

It's called a "smear by association" usually a leftist tactic.


104 posted on 10/15/2005 12:43:37 PM PDT by furball4paws (One of the last Evil Geniuses, or the first of their return.)
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To: cornelis
It still quite evident to me that the sun revolves around me and I need no further proof.

You'd be right at home here, then. Teach the controversy!
105 posted on 10/15/2005 12:44:17 PM PDT by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: Thombo2

The prevalence of Latin and Greek in sciences doesn't mean we use them correctly. Check out the dictionary. The plural of virus is viruses.


106 posted on 10/15/2005 12:45:15 PM PDT by furball4paws (One of the last Evil Geniuses, or the first of their return.)
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To: nightdriver
It might be interesting to see what Setephen Jay Gould says about evolution today.

Who?
107 posted on 10/15/2005 12:47:00 PM PDT by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: curiosity
Behe's book did get evolutionary biologists interested in figuring out how the bacterial flagellum evolved. A lot of good work has been done because of this, proving Behe wrong, of course.

I suspect that the effort was essentially unproductive, as that wasn't a serious problem. (If I'm wrong, and the flagellum issue has lead to something of value, I'll be delighted to be corrected.)

Although the effort expended in rebutting Behe has proved him wrong, it hasn't slowed him down. Or his followers. Like all creationist arguments, this one just won't go away. The reason for this is that creationists don't care about evidence, only their peculiar version of things. And reality never gets in their way.

This is why most serious scientists don't waste their time on such silliness. Alas, sometimes it's necessary, as when the Dark Agers try to destroy the teaching of science in government schools, as a necessary first step in their mad goal of establishing a theocracy.

108 posted on 10/15/2005 12:47:22 PM PDT by PatrickHenry ( I won't respond to a troll, crackpot, retard, or incurable ignoramus.)
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To: Havoc
Apparently you don't know the difference between proof and evidence. All conclusions are drawn from evidence none of which is considered to be 100% proof. This is what we mean when we say science is not about proof but about evidence that gives us a number of data points to work with. We assume that the creationists crying for proof are expecting science to come up with something that can be considered to prove a hypothesis 100%.

This difference of meaning gives you (creationists) something with which to equivocate.
109 posted on 10/15/2005 12:50:34 PM PDT by b_sharp (All previous taglines have been sacked.)
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To: PatrickHenry
The reason for this is that creationists don't care about evidence, only their peculiar version of things.

Other people's faults should be no occasion for yours.

110 posted on 10/15/2005 12:52:06 PM PDT by cornelis
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To: 2ndreconmarine

Well said.


111 posted on 10/15/2005 12:53:06 PM PDT by Ichneumon (Certified pedantic coxcomb)
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To: b_sharp
We assume that the creationists crying for proof are expecting science to come up with something that can be considered to prove a hypothesis 100%.

Interesting. Creationists will deny something that has substantial evidence for existence but will hold as truth something which they have zero proof of.

112 posted on 10/15/2005 12:53:36 PM PDT by WildTurkey (When will CBS Retract and Apologize?)
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To: PatrickHenry
Ken Miller aknowledges in his book that as of 1996, the state of knowledge about evolution of biochemical sytstems was very limited. Pointing this out and getting people to study it more has to have some value. The bacterial flagellum is not the only issue here.

A hostile review of Behe's book gave him credit for this. I'll see if I can find it.

113 posted on 10/15/2005 12:53:37 PM PDT by curiosity (Cronyism is not Conservative)
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To: Havoc; PatrickHenry
There isn't any evidence for Evolution. That's the beauty of the con.

They're onto us! Can exposure of the germ-theory-of-disease-con be far behind? Even the gravity-con is in danger! CAN'T YOU SEE WE CAN'T KEEP THIS UP!! It's insane. You're all mad. I can't be part of this anymore. I'm going public. I'm going to finally TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT EVERYTHING. I'm [...shot rings out.../] dfsajklj;e aa [ijjJ/

114 posted on 10/15/2005 12:53:39 PM PDT by Stultis
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To: b_sharp
I had you and js in mind at #36.
115 posted on 10/15/2005 12:54:14 PM PDT by cornelis
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To: Zeroisanumber; PatrickHenry
I spend a fair bit of time on skeptic and science forums, and I must say, it is a universal opinion that American Conservatives are anti-science and steeped in religious zealotry. It will be a steep row to hoe to change that perception.
116 posted on 10/15/2005 12:57:22 PM PDT by b_sharp (All previous taglines have been sacked.)
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placemarker


117 posted on 10/15/2005 12:57:53 PM PDT by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: Stultis

The Grand Master has put you on indefinite leave.


118 posted on 10/15/2005 12:58:13 PM PDT by PatrickHenry ( I won't respond to a troll, crackpot, retard, or incurable ignoramus.)
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To: b_sharp
I spend a fair bit of time on skeptic and science forums, and I must say, it is a universal opinion

Your "universe" is limited. Moreover, "Conservative" is a political concept. And you know the ditty about opinions.

119 posted on 10/15/2005 1:01:54 PM PDT by AndrewC (Until the early years of the 21st century, --- That means just yesterday)
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To: PatrickHenry

Ichneumon only winged me, and then injected something into my arm. The impulse to shout, "the earth is FLAT, all FOUR SIDES of it," is gradually fading... (Ooops.)


120 posted on 10/15/2005 1:01:58 PM PDT by Stultis
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