Posted on 09/04/2005 7:46:39 PM PDT by Shazbot29
Finally, a voice of reason. I would no more pick out a firearm for a lady than select her shoes. It's up to her to select her personal defense whether it's pepper spray or a assault weapon.
The lady has to go to a gun store and shoot the rentals before she can make a logical choice. She has to find something that fits her hand. She has to have the safety and slide lock positioned where she can reach them.
Most people have enough money to support a new lifestyle and firearms are exactly that. Practicing takes time but at least it's fun.
Last note, a firearm shouldn't be kept in a purse or any other baggage. My own personal opinion is if she's going to use it for personal defense it should be concealed under her clothing at all times. There are enough women fashions that make this possible.
Geat advice -- thanks guys.
I wanted to be able to at least give her guidance -- what if she picks a pea-shooter? And she is the type that wants to make an intelligent decision so I need to provide parameters and a selection framework (really!)
FR rocks! I am tempted to post the same thing on my non-de-plume over on DU, but I think I would get tombstoned.
As long as she doesn't pick a peashooter that takes enimic cartridges as a .25 auto. Take her to a reputable gunshot that won't show her the .25 auto Ravens.
Jeff Cooper was even impressed with a little revolver from Smith and Wesson which took .22 LR cartridges. His grand-daughter was carrying it and she was blindingly fast with it.
The only rules which I know of is to buy from a reputable manufacture and the largest cartridge/gun combination you can carry and shoot all day without discomfort.
Yes. Bullet choice is essential. I prefer hollowpoints but semi-wadcutters are also good.
"I don't have guns in my house mostly because I practice martial arts and usually feel I can handle most one-on-one situations. . "
When people write stuff like this, it always makes me think of the "Raiders of the Lost Ark" marketplace scene between Indy and the very large Arab with the even larger sword.
If you all don't remember the very confident is shot by Indy.
"It's a new world and I want to be able to protect my family in whatever way the situation calls for."
No, it is the same world but now you seem to get it ;-)
"I don't understand your question. A .38 semi-automatic pistol as opposed to a .38 revolver. Some refer to the semi-auto as self-loading, is that the source of your confusion?"
He is indirectly pointing to the questionable identity of a >38 semi-auto. I have never seen one myself. .380 are common but a 38 caliber?
Oh I get it alright. I am not too much of a pessimist, but I don't see the world resolving all the current issues without some kind of major shakeup happening. The next few years are going to be very ugly. I think this country is as divided as it's ever been since the Civil War and is just waiting to erupt. This is not even touching the Islamic issues, Iran, North Korea and China, problems that are looming in the very near future. This hurricane has shown that it doesn't take very long for a society to fall apart and turn on itself. I get it, and it's a shame that others haven't and maybe never will. The time is coming where the "can't we all just get along" attitude is not going to work.
Are you trying to arm her, or get the best trade-in value? :)
Armaments.
If something happens, I want her to be able to take out the maximum number of scumballs in the minimum amount of time.
Congrates on the mind switch to protect you, your family and your wife's now willingness to do the same!
1st let me say I'm new here and this is my first post. That being said, let me say I'm an ex-bodyguard now from past years in the LEO arena.
Many a times I've trained, explained the use of firearms and what mostly has been said in regards to your inquiry is pretty much on par. Pretty much that is.
Briefly, the BEST of the best in 'home protection' is simple AFTER you take a NRA course in firearms safety add all else. (the instructor will most likely seperate you and your wife atleast a few spaces apart at the range)
The NUMBER ONE firearm is the 12 gauge shotgun (with ONLY the short barrel version...adding pistol grip helps)
Winchester #1300 Defender, black 'n no flash stainless steel, is a great choice and not all that costly, many aftermarket aids as well. Mossberg Mav. is a cheapo but still a good choice and a couple hundred $ less.
THEN add a Beamshot or simular LASER to the barrel, paying close but simple attention to adjusting it correctly.(reason?...simple...a powerful laser beam DOES aid you and most importantly, aids the intruder that you DO HAVE a spot on them, can keep from any further action required at times, as well helps greatly in a situation where you are in darkness (90+%of all shootings)and out of a deep sleeep,etc...works to swath the area as well.
Add to or for carry, a REAL Tac Light (Night Ops at www.BLACKHAWK.COM just came out with one that in and of itself is a less than lethal weapon AND strobes to your advantage...GLADIUS, water PROOF to 50 meters, adjustable lumens .8 to 90+ and made for the worst of treatment/abuses, more than worth the cost and well worth YOUR lives!) This tac light BTW is the absolute in new tech that will be sure to be one of the best investments you've ever made and can be found eBaying for about $200. And Surefire is already losing sales because of this weapons light/tac light.
The short barreled (ONLY!! no broom stick long for the grab puleeeeeze) 12 gauge should be fully loaded in the 8 rd mag with an order of in the use of; 00, 00, rifled slug(RF),RF,00,00,RF,RF. I personally use 2 3/4" mag loads but stress to home owners to use standard loads, far less kick up and more than enough to 'stop the unwanted action'. IF you live in closeness or have adjoining walls of drywall neighbors, kids rooms...then use #9 shot in place of the #00 buck.
This alone is THE BEST in home protection, requires little skill, aim and ongoing target skills practice as does ANY handgun firearm(s). (Target practice BTW without stress/poor light/changing light targets is nothing more than basics and like 'playing' with one's self...feels good but accomplishes nothing to little else.
POINT>> once ANY firearm is fired inside an inclosed building/room/area...the user will lose night sight (20 to 100 seconds) and will lose their hearing as well for atleast MINUTES if not hours, days and even weeks in part or whole.
Called muzzle flash and this alone will make even the best shooter lose their 'target' if even for a few seconds. And within 2 seconds the 'badguy' can travel 7 meters in that time frame...in any number of directions including yours.
So....FIRST get a short barreled 12 gauge and set it up with with the mentioned rounds and a laser. Add the Gladius as a get to fast flashlight.
Now then...yes, the Colt 45 IS the BEST proven stopper of all time and to this day is still the most proven firearm in real life use. I personally have the stainless steel Colt 45 XS (8 rd mag)model w/ 1 in the tube and always 'cocked and locked' carry mode and it is selling now for around $850.++ NIB or at 98% used. As for the "spray and pray" 9mm...well, have at 'em and many do so no offense meant.
You say your wife is small and a 45 might well be too much to wrap a good hold on so I'd say not to go that firearm.
Besides...if she and you for that matter, are 'not into guns' then by all means do not get into a semi auto which requires more care, cleaning and practice than a wheel gun/revolver.
My humble suggestion is what I've advised most often for those ladies who have a want or need to carry/use and yet are not into alot of gun handling perse.
A stainless steel Ruger SP101 revolver is the best option all around when taking into account MANY variables. It is a 5 shot +P .38 caliber and can handle even a nasty 357 magnium load as well. (REMEMBER muzzle flash!!!!)
The SP101 is price modest, can be in mud for a year and still fire at 1st trigger squeeze and requires so very little cleaning and due care. Perfect for a handbag, under the car seat and is a small frame that even the smallest of hands can sue with ease.
You and your wife can load it with standard 38 cal or go the +P loads, even try a box of 357s if so inclined.
No matter what you end up choosing...short of the SHORT barrel 12 gauge a 110% MUST HAVE....go atleast 38 caliber and no less. THINK rightly how much 'savings' is a sacrifice of a loved one's life? No need certainly for a Wilson Custom but then again...add this up ok?
Add $850.00 for a Winchester #1300 Defender with laser, laser mount...a Gladius flashlight all together. Add an SP101 for about $350.00 and you've spent $1200.00 on the equipment, boxes of ammo...add a couple of courses and all spent, rounds and all is about $1500.00 max.
A pine casket with no frills will cost 3 Xs that much...not ever to account for the lost lives of loved ones by a scum who got away, away with it or not...living the REST of your life thinking each day..."WHAT IF....".
A last note here...IF you do get home protection in the way of a firearm....keep it loaded and ready to use...ALWAYS when at home. NO trigger lock crapola, no ammo locked in the garage and firearm in the hatbox above the shoe boxes in the closet type thing. Keep the 12 gauge at bedside propped nearby and become mindset it is always there, no where else. When you leave home for ANY amount of time....hide it well unloaded, seperated ammo or take it with you.
Got kids??? Good...TEACH them as well for safe handling and let them hold and even shoot the any firearms. This will remove the naughty not nice to touch desire, most likely will make them NOT want anything to do with it, etc. TAKE THE TIME with kids to teach them properly, well and they will not be showing off to their friends, etc as so many horror stories do make.
Bottom line....IF you ever should have the any need for a firearm...you have on average 3 seconds or less to use it and use it well.
At home...add a few seconds for a dog to alert you, etc but still....the time is in seconds...not minutes to get out of a deep sleep, find the lock key, ammo and load, etc, etc to then try and protect the lives worth all this effort and expense in money, time, mindset, skills training add all. Add to the so few seconds that you will have a 90% chance that the situation calling for the use of a firearm will be in dark or near dark conditions....trying to find a key to find the firearm to then find the ammo and unlock it all and load...is a 99.99% certainty you will have long since lost the ability to protect you or anyone.
Spend the time BEFORE you really need all the time you can get and learn what and how...teach the rest of the family too in all regards and make a commitment in the beginning and not face the regrets afterwards.
Sorry for the first post preaching here...but I guess I got tired too long ago trying to help others help themselves when they had little commitment to do so.
Takes good thinking, choices and a strong commitment...otherwise...just dial 911 and hope for the best of the worst.
As you do should you do so...you will learn what happens to the human body when under dire stress of fight or flight. Tunnel vision, selective lose of hearing, colors and even pain. Time in seconds will become moments as well... lactic acid will go flowing too.
Add all this to the even most seasoned firearms 'expert' and then there's no wonder why most shots aimed, missed.
I always score mid to high 90s in 3 second from CCW drills under alternate lighting conditions add all else having been trained thruout the many years and to this day...I know when, if, I should have to take #3 badguy down...there will be a shot or more missing their aim.
Please, please, please....get a short barreled 12 gauge first and foremost.
You and your wife will more than easily be able to be handle it with good results should you ever be in the place and time where only the good results will make a life saving difference.
Sincerely, respectfully, the good Lord willing__Michael
That'll take some digesting -- THANKS for such a thorough post.
You are certainly welcome.
And by your comment within the thanks...it appears there is atleast some more thought and thinking done as you venture into the world of self-protection with firearms, a good thing to see so I inturn do thank you.
Please know my intentions were not to sway you away in any way what so ever concerning the use of a firearm. My only gesture in sum was to tell it to you straight, not with a bunch of nonsense as some 'wannabes' posted.
Briefly....the idea of a .357 mag is the most lame of lame for ANY at home use for protection. Unless that's all ya got, then best to have anything than nothing...a 22 cal is better than a rolling pin.
*TINK* Muzzle flash! A .357 has a 3 by 5 foot muzzle flash and rest assured you'll be blind with white blinks ending up in the worst case situation than had you not....unless you got a VERY lucky shot in first.
Not to mention thru 3,4 walls and a couple of car doors for the any mis-shots.
Seriously, a 12 gauge with #9, #8 shot mixed as said with RF slugs will be the best single investment made for you and yours. Be it a cared for used one or new, only a short barrel. My only sound reason and advice for a Winchester #1300 Defender was due to the modest choke (a -3 ft diameter spread at about 20+ft) on the short barrel and it has a very sweet design within its engineering that makes the PUMPing act as though it was self-loading for you.
The strong suggestion you go for a serious 'tac-light' as the Night-Ops Gladius is because it is the most well designed, engineered flashlight of its kind on the market.
Ever had a Bose? If so, you know how intuitive it is to 'figure out' without alot of reading the directions when all else fails.
Hard to fully explain in a post/forum why this Gladius is as vital as even a short barreled 12 gauge.
In short, it has 3 modes. No biggy here.
The thing is...you need all you can have on your side of time, distraction and disabling the intruder.
The Gladius is a most serious flashlight...the STROBE action on it WILL DISABLE the poor soul on the receiving end. To the one aimed at...they will be brainless in motor skills, movement, time, distance add all. You need this more than you'll ever realize until you have experienced a real life encounter of grave threat.
The absolutely blinding 80+ luxems of light will be so much to your advantage, it will have paid for itself in one use....deadly or not...best not.
Do try to realize as it looks as if you have already...this is serious stuff and not as difficult to become comfortable with as one might first think once the first couple of steps have been taken.
I can't stress enough how vital it is to have only the right 'equipment'. You do not need a houseful of firearms and certainly not some 'wannabe' high mag load or high capacity 9mm, etc.
Federal stats are 3 shots or less, 3 seconds or less and in dark or near dark conditions...in 3 meters or less. POOF and boom boom it's all over with....but for the legal time afterwards....which is too much to go into here but be aware.
Do NOT 'drag inside, blah blah' (mess or alter the scene and you face tampering charges and a jury that won't believe much of anything you have to say). Do NOT offer any detailed account of the incident until atleast 24 hours after it has taken place. The police will understand and know they as well as you will not have all the facts of details down as you will in time to soon follow. Generally it is a pretty much clear cut case when signs of entry are seen, the perp has a background, etc.
Note too...the use of a mounted laser as I strongly suggested...the use of the Gladius as well...all go a long, long, long way to YOUR advantage, not only at the time needed and used...but if the incident was to go to trial, civil or otherwise.
These items of use show you did all you could and then some to be a responsible firearms owner/user and had your act together.
At the end...you will be alive even to deal with the days upon days of questionings, focus of attention by your local media, neighbors, friends, family circle, etc,etc.
As one from a background in having to carry firearm(s) on a daily basis..it was soooo nice like in a 1000 monkeys were finally off my back nice when I no longer HAD to have the firearm about me in any given place within sight or sound, etc.
Today, I still have one or the other within reach perse but the ever constant mindset of awareness of having one at hand is no longer the issue it once was. Ask any LEO what I mean. The weight on your person and mind grows heavy at times, most of the time.
For you, your wife...you will at first be going thru phases of having a firearm in your home; constant worry, etc about it...always asking each other if the other has done anything to it, moved it or whatever. This all will pass and then you'll be in the 'forgetful' stage where you got a block down the street and remembered not to stow it away while you're gone.
In time and due time, you'll all adjust to having protection and it will become a part of your everyday life and not that big of a deal to harness in that mindset of owning one.
As a few rightfully suggested...get what's 'comfortable' but then, get what's the best to have and one last time...the 12 gauge short barrel is the best of the best for home protection.
Remember...what shot misses goes and goes and goes until it stops.
WHAT stops it is the thing to give very serious consideration to. Live in the Boondocks ? Great...Dirty Harry all ya want then.
If not or you have kids, pets, neighbors then get #8,9 shot in the 12 gauge (added a couple of rifled slugs after the 1st couple of small shot loads) and not worry about killing any innocent life undeservingly.
Just one more example of what's involved for consideration IF you choose a handgun and one of big enough size to 'stop the action' (you never shoot to kill and never shoot to wound...leave that nonsense to the movies).
I carry the Colt .45...and the loads for it are many for many occassions.
If I'm doing outside work, in a remote place or in the cold winter...I use Hydro Shok (jacket hollow points filed at the factory cuts). Why? Well they are high grain loads and have a jacket to go deeper as they mushroom with a nipple to aid the faster mushrooming effect. Will pass thru winter clothing, multiple layers and do their job.
In close quarter enviorments, crowds, social gatherings...and summer time, I use Winchester silver tips. Soft, soft and they mushroom sooner upon impact and so no over penitration and worry of a bystander getting what's left of the metal.
In way tight places...an aircraft likely (non commercial) or in a place of great concern for too many innocents...I might use Glacier Safety bullets...Rat Shot is the slang...a mini shotgun load of BBs.
If I plan and have a 'know' I'll be using the .45 and in the outside with many a cars, etc then I MIGHT load a magazine with full jackets to get thru a car door or such.
See?
Alot to consider once again...and for you at home, go with Silver Tips if you decide to get a handgun WITH the 12 gauge.
Less by far less chance of going thru a wall or two and taking down one you do care alot about.
Ok...done preaching and posting so all can have at me for their any reasons.
Best to you and God speed to all__Michael...aka Jag
BUMP
They aren't made any more, but there are quite a few Colt 1911 pistols chambered for the .38 Super cartridge still in use. The .38 Super was developed from loading the old .38 Colt Auto cartridge to much higher pressure in the late 1920s, and it's a pretty hot round that's ballistically just below the .357 mag class in power.
I once had a model 1902 .38 Colt Auto caliber pistol that was known as the slide rule pistol because of the way John Browning designed the locking mechanism. It was in near perfect condition and I sold it cheap to get cash for another gun I had my eye on, and then I later discovered that it was a valuable collector's item that I could have sold to a serious Colt collector for enough money to buy a half dozen of the guns I was interested in. Story of my life, a day late and a dollar short.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.