Posted on 03/23/2005 5:09:24 PM PST by Hildy
You are in your 20's, and you're visiting somebody in the hospital. You pass by a room where somebody is all contorted up, in a vegitative state. Would you say to your husband:
a)Honey, Don't ever let me live in that condition.
b )Honey, If I ever get like that, please make sure you do everything in your power, whatever the cost to you and our family, financially and emotionally, to keep me in that vegitative state no matter how long it takes. I want you to come and sit by my side every day and go home alone every night. I want to have strangers tend to my most personal needs. If I don't respond in four or five years, make sure I'm kept alive by a feeding tube in my stomach. And, most importantly, if you're not sure if I know what's going on around me, please err on the side of caution and keep me in that bed, indefinitely.
Remember, you're 24 years old. Which one would you pick?
That was an excellant post. I know what the maority of people would answer and we have the stats that over 80% of the population ( Christians included) would also NOT chose to stay in a PVS.
The church is pretty hypocritical on these medical dillemas. There was a time, not too long ago, when people died "naturally" cause we didn't have the medical advances we now have. So how is it that the Church ok's artifical insemination ( talk about UN natural ) yet will not allow an "end point" to be decided when Un-natural means are used to keep a person alive.
speculation is a theory reached by conjecture so the point would be?
besides the way you asked the question implies that you are motivated by much more than speculation.....you have an opinion, an agenda.
Hildy did an opus and I missed it?? D**n!
Exactly what my hubby said Sunday.
"Look if you want to argue for the right to kill her that is one thing..."
I don't want anybody to kill her. I thought you were posting multiple choice option "e)" for me and my spouse.
don't forget, I posted "c)" and "d)".
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1369247/posts?q=1&&page=51#88
Dr. Baden and about 50 other doctors.
It does. When my Father died, it was explained to me. He stopped eating and then they gave him lots of morphine and lasix (a diuretic). I asked why they were giving him the lasix and they said because by dehydrating the body it speeds up the dying process. He was in no pain and died very peacefully.
What is missing here is that in a serious conversation about this subject there is more to the statement than "I don't want to be kept in that state." What is missing is the BECAUSE...I can not imagine anybody having a real conversation about this without stating their reason/s. The main reason many people have stated for not wanting to be maintained as a "vegetable" is that they do not want to be a burden to their family. If Terri had this reason, killing her would be exactly going against her wishes, because this is breaking the heart of her mother, father and siblings. Would she really want that? Is it likely that would be her wish? Another reason often given is the pain. We are told Terri has no pain, so that reason is gone too. It REALLY matters what reason she gave. If she gave NO REASON, then it can't be considered a serious conversation.
Also - Sayng "I don't want to live that way" is not the same as saying "Kill me if I end up that way." For instance, you might be riding through a horrible neighborhood and say "I wouldn't want to live that way." It wouldn't mean you wanted to be killed if you ended up there.
When someone has a really bad day and says "Just shoot me" they do not usually MEAN it. Reasons matter and give context.
In our twenties, that sort of thing is the last thing on our minds. It seems a million years away. I don't know what Terri might have said to Michael, and maybe Michael is as innocent as the driven snow. . or maybe he has been a lying, money-grubbing, abusive, adulterous husband. I sure don't know. It all depends on how much that has been testified to by witnesses is true and how much is just a passel of pathological liars and publicity seekers coming out of the woodwork.
It just seems odd that it took Michael seven years to recall Terri's alleged words about wanting to die. - I don't know, and you don't know, but I do THINK it is just - odd, that is all.
On the face of it, it would appear that this is cruel and unusual punishment. IF Terri is more aware than all the "experts" have said, I am sure she would have to be wondering what the he** she did in her last incarnation to have earned this repeated torture. (I don't believe in reincarnation, this is my attempt at stupid levity under the grim circumstances.)
For good or bad, I believe Michael Shiavo will have to face Terri one day, for good or bad. Which is it? Terri knows and Michael knows, and people will be watching Michael very closely in the coming years and months. (He stated just the other day that he is getting absolutely NO MONEY from Terri's death.)
Be very sure of this one thing, God is not mocked, whatsover a man soweth, that shall he also reap. . and again, Thou shalt not kill.
By the end was your father in a coma when they started doing the morphine and lasix?
"My sister died having ovarian cancer. When she was diagnosed, Stage IV, they only gave her 6 weeks. My sister decided to fight and do what she could to live. I don't know if you know the details regarding ovarian cancer but it is one of the most painful deaths to go thru. My sister was in the hospice hospital numerous times and they would tell her daughter she would not make it thru the night but she did and would go home after a couple of days. She remember one time, she heard the Doctor tell Lisa that she would not make it thru the night and heard her daughter crying. She said I could not talk but I was screaming in my head, "Baby don't cry, it is not my time yet" and totally pissed at the Doctor for upsetting her daugher. She would laugh and tell me if she was given a dollar for every time they told her she had just six days, she would be rich. My sister lived for two years and died on her terms. You could not give any member of our family any amount of money to take away those two years. You could not give my sister any amount of money to give up those two years no matter how painful it was for her. My sister went thru SEVERE PAIN and yet look forward and appreciated every day she was alive. I learned from her what TRUE HONEST LOVE IS. Never not even once did my sister complain, nor bemoan her fate. I thank God for those two years. She taught me how to live and love life and she drew our family very close. My sister was 45 when she died. She had just became a grandmother a year before she was first diagnosed. In those two years, she got to know her Granddaughter and her Granddaughter got to know her."
"Words can not express the sadness that I feel for you right now.
Two-Bits, I read with much sorrow and understanding or your love for your sweet sister. May she rest in peace, and may the Lord hold you both tightly in His loving arms. I also lost my sissy a year and a half ago to brain cancer, after a hard, 3+ year battle involving multiple surgeries, gamma knifes, radiation, and chemo. She would have been 45 this Good Friday. She was a trooper through it ALL, maintaining an amazing positive attitude with a never-ending smile on her face. Her first tumor was the size of a small grapefruit, and one of the finest surgeons in the US, who removed it and others to follow, said that he had never seen anything like that first tumor. At one point when she was in bad shape, she lost the ability to swallow, due to neurological complications and a downward spiral. With THERAPY, she re-learned to SWALLOW. And mind you, she was very neurologically compromised, but was STILL teachable. I miss her very much. I understand your loss and sorrow, Two-Bits. I am so sorry and will keep you in my thoughts. One day at a time, right?
Michael "Husband" Schiavo ("When is that B*TCH gonna die?) pointedly DENIED helpless Terri the most basic, needed therapy, including therapy to TRY to re-learn to swallow. He FORBADE light in her room. He has a common law wife other than Terri and two children by the other woman. Terri's mother found out about Michael's other wife via the OBITUARY of Michael's mother (questionable death?,) which read that she was survived by Michael and his FIANCE. NO mention at ALL that Michael HAD a wife--Terri. And THIS is how Terri's parents found out about THE OTHER WOMAN.
Disgusting.
And Terri is being starved based on THIS scum's *word*?
The questions I have about the Schaivo case are totally independent of Terri's "quality of life." If she had written her desires or made them known to more than an adulterous, manipulative, HINO (husband in name only) I'd be all for HER wishes. I believe Michael Schaivo is carrying out HIS wishes.
***I've viewed the video. Have you read anything about this case?***
You're rude. I've been reading your other posts, and damn, just drop it already. She's most likely going to die, so you won't have to worry about debating it anymore.
Nah, years ago she moved out to California. Not long afterwards she met up with a local cult who shunned God and worshipped the deity 'Oscar'.
Oscar closely resembled that statue they give to actors for making anti pro-life movies.
Last I heard Hildy was running a not-for-profit agency that purportedly helped teenagers get funding for travel expenses to study in the orient.
Youth-In-Asia though is now under investigation for being a front as suspicious activity at the agency was noticed by some local Christian groups. It seems that any time an elderly or handicapped person wondered in the place they were never seen again.
Oh, Hildy still wears a daisy in her hair.
Well .. since this the question you asked me on another thread .. I'll just copy and paste the response I gave you then
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1369025/posts?page=1257#1257
To: Hildy
Well .. I have a Living Will that states not to give up on me
My husband knows my wishes since he was there when we had our lawyer write up our Wills .. which I might add was done when I got married at 24 yrs of age.
Plus .. due to all this with Terri .. I have told my husband that if he ever starve me to death that I would haunt him till he the day he die :0)
With that all said and should my husband not want to stay married to me .. he has every right to divorce me .. but he doesn't have the right to kill me
1,257 posted on 03/23/2005 7:46:39 PM EST by Mo1
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1369025/posts?page=1237#1237
To: Hildy
I take my marriage vows before God very seriously
If it was my husband that was going through this .. I would be by his side and not with another man
1,237 posted on 03/23/2005 7:31:54 PM EST by Mo1
Isn't that the problem, though? It hasn't been proven. No MRI, no PET scan, minimal contact by court-appointed "expert;" this does rise to the level of "beyond a reasonable doubt."
It was on my mind at 25, married w/three young kids.
I said to my hubby and mother much the same as Terri said.
This was when a dear old lady I knew was in hospital for 3 months prior to pulling her tube.
I'm 61 now, and have had a Living Will for 8 yrs.
Not if you drown.
If people are honest 90% of the responses would be 'A'.
That being said, it's still a hard issue.
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