The Terri Schiavo Information page

Abstract Appeal ^ | February 25, 2005

[spiralsue]

how how how how how how how HOW can anyone consider WATER and FOOD to be "life-prolonging measures"?????????????????

I can't see the reasoning in withholding food and water as a means to make a human being die, expire, pass on... anything you want to call it. Would it not be simpler, quicker, less painful to withhold OXYGEN? Tape her mouth and nose and it'll be over in about five minutes as opposed to dehydration and starvation which could take weeks.

My family has three nurses, in different parts of the country. They ALL say dehydration and starvation are atrocious hideous way to die. They ALL say they would NOT allow it to happen to any family member. They ALL say people do not realize what it entails when they add that to their living wills. They've ALL seen it happen.

Let us remember, Terri is not physically ill. She is well-nourished (for now) and will not go easily or quickly. If I were her relative, they would have to kill me first.

[Gondring]

And no, you can't have 75% of brain tissue intact, and at the same time have all or even most of the cerebral cortex gone. The cerebral cortex accounts for 80% of the volume of the brain. Do the math.

Actually, Trinity_Tx is right. Your error is that you confuse the cerebral cortex with the whole cerebrum. The cerebral cortex is just the "outer layer," while the 80% you cite is referring to the cerebral lobes underneath. See, for example, http://www.alzheimers.org/unraveling/04.htm. From the alzheimers.org glosary:

Cerebral cortex - the outer layer of nerve cells surrounding the cerebral hemispheres. [my emphasis]

I think the confusion arises when people look at a diagram of the brain and see the post label for "cerebral cortex"--and don't realize it's pointing to just the outside layer. (Sort of analogous to a picture of a cake that has an arrow to "Grey Frosting" and people think the whole cake is a blob of frosting. :-)

For example, here is the abstract of an article on a study done of boys with autism. Scans of the brain were done to determine volumes of each part, and the cerebrum was subdivided into cerebral cortex, cerebral white matter, hippocampus–amygdala, caudate nucleus, globus pallidus plus putamen, and diencephalon (thalamus plus ventral diencephalon). The children with autism had smaller volumes of cerebral cortex relative to the massive white matter portions below when compared to the control group.

[Gondring]

My family has three nurses, in different parts of the country. They ALL say dehydration and starvation are atrocious hideous way to die. They ALL say they would NOT allow it to happen to any family member. They ALL say people do not realize what it entails when they add that to their living wills. They've ALL seen it happen.

Agreed. If we can't be civilized and allow her a less painful active deliverance, then morphine should be provided to relieve the agony--at whatever dosage is needed, even if that ultimately makes her unable to survive. Unless some Catholics or others wish to argue that there's some merit inherent in suffering and Mrs. Schiavo would have wanted it that way (yes, I've heard some do so).

[Trinity_Tx]

"Matt Conigliaro is clearly a liar, for claiming that "The only debate between the doctors is whether she has a small amount of isolated living tissue in her cerebral cortex or whether she has no living tissue in her cerebral cortex." Dr. Hammesfher disagrees, so there *is* a debate, and it is *not* what Mr. Conigliaro claims."

No. See above.
You are calling Matt Conigliaro a liar when all he is doing is quoting the 4 judges in their decisions after hearing testimony on the stand by all the doctors, including Hammasfher. If you read the transcript of the trial, you'll see they are exactly right.

From the decision of Florida's second district court of appeals:

The only debate between the doctors
is whether she has a small amount
of isolated living tissue in her cerebral cortex
or whether she has no living tissue in her cerebral cortex.

Clear enough???

By the way, the 2D Court of Appeals didn't just review the handling of the hearing, they actually went out of their way re-examined the evidence presented and the testimony of each doctor themselves.

When Hammesfher gave actual testimony under oath, he was a hell of a lot less cocky than he was in that report, or since then running around doing interviews where he wont be subject to questioning. Again, he wrote his report *before* the trial, yet knowing it was full of bull, they *refused* to put it into evidence and allow it to be cross-examined!

As I said, I wouldn't call him a quack, but I will call him a liar - in the Clintonian sense at the very least. He tells half-truths and uses select words to mislead people. I show an example HERE.

Anyway... I'm doing my best to hold my tongue here, and please note all the stuff I don't comment on in all these other threads. But sheeeesh it is hard. Y'all base most of your case on this one doctor and his twisted words.

[Trinity_Tx]

Michael Schiavo had Terri totally sedated the last time she had the tube pulled. Her parents complained about it because she was "too unresponsive".

[Wampus SC]

Ah! Now I see it all in a different light. (As in lightbulb going on). Sad and spooky.

[T'wit]

>> Michael Schiavo worked tirelessly for years trying to help his wife. During the prime of his life.

Like stealing the rings off her fingers to make jewelry for himself, as he admitted in sworn testimony? Like killing her cats? Like hiring a euthanasia lawyer to get her put to death right after getting the insurance settlement? Like denying her therapy for all the years? Like refusing to let her out of her room to go out in the sunshine? Like not letting her have visitors? Like preventing her from taking holy communion?

[Gondring]

Michael Schiavo had Terri totally sedated the last time she had the tube pulled. Her parents complained about it because she was "too unresponsive".

It used to be that I thought Mr. Schiavo was not to be trusted, and that the Schindlers were just loving but misguided parents who couldn't let go. The more I read, the more I feel the Schindlers also are a bit loose with the whole truth.

Now, I know that Mrs. Schiavo--sorry, "Terri"--is a saint, the second coming of Mary, mother of Jesus, but how did she get her "sweetness" and all while being surrounded by such a crowd? Maybe all of those who know Mrs. Schaivo Terri so well can explain.

Oh, and since when does being "sweet" mean that we should ignore your wishes and preferences, or force you to endure an agonizing end? How could her parents do that to her? Perhaps the historical trauma was caused by Mr. Schindler? Has anyone investigated that?

What a sick situation.

[Kitty Mittens]

force you to endure an agonizing end.

That's what Michael wants to do to Terri. :(

[Gondring]

According to Trinity_Tx, it was the Schindlers who didn't like her being sedated.

[Kitty Mittens]

That's because they were Praying for her Rescue, which Came, Praise God, and they wanted to have their dear one know they were there with her, until Help Arrived.

[Wampus SC]

"Did you also notice the large number of (I'm not allowed to say "trolls" anymore) who are repeating over and over some nonsense about Terri being "a prisoner in her body" and not being allowed "to go to heaven"? They're all saying exactly the same thing, it's almost rehearsed."

I noticed it. I noticed something else they say over and over. They say Terri's being kept alive against God's will. As if that were possible to do, which it isn't. That idea goes back to the oldest heresy, and the very first lie - the idea that man is equal in power to God, and can play tug of war with his will. Or, that man's power is greater than God's, and man can override God's will. A lie that worked on Eve. Satan and followers of evil have been trying to get everyone to fall for that lie for a long, long time. But it hasn't worked, and it will not work now.

[Ohioan from Florida]

Terri ping to 187! If anyone would like to be added to or removed from my Terri ping list, please let me know by FReepmail!

[pollywog]

, that he decided to do what he thought was in her best interest.

......that he decided to do what he thought was in HIS BEST INTEREST!!!!!!!!! Stop kidding yourself.!!!!!!!

[KDD]

Mike Thomas

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/state/orl-locmiket25022505feb25,0,566960.column?coll=orl-home-headlines


I received an avalanche of e-mail about Terri Schiavo. The bad information going out on this case is amazing.

What is real and what is not?

For answers, I turned to University of South Florida professor Jay Wolfson. He was appointed as a guardian ad litem for Terri in 2003 and prepared a report on her for Jeb Bush.

After a judge dismissed him in December of that year, Bush and Terri's parents -- Bob and Mary Schindler -- requested he stay on as Terri's guardian. Terri's husband, Michael Schiavo, opposed the request.

Wolfson's report is based on court files, depositions, medical records and interviews with everyone involved.

That said, I begin with the most explosive allegation:

Did Michael try to kill Terri?

Wolfson laughs. "No!"

In 1990, Terri went into cardiac arrest, which shut off oxygen to her brain. A potassium imbalance, perhaps caused by an eating disorder, triggered the attack.

Has Michael withheld treatment?

Wolfson's report states that in the four years after her collapse, Michael "had insistently held to the premise that Theresa could recover and the evidence is incontrovertible that he gave his heart and soul to her treatment and care . . . In late autumn of 1990, following months of therapy and testing and formal diagnoses of persistent vegetative state with no evidence of improvement, Michael took Theresa to California, where she received an experimental thalamic stimulator implant in her brain. Michael remained in California caring for Theresa during a period of several months."

Says Wolfson now: "Michael was adoring of her. One nursing home complained he was hostile and abusive of the staff in championing her care. She was immaculately kept. In 13 years, she never had one bedsore."

Is Michael after her insurance settlement?

Wolfson's report says that early on, Michael "formally offered to divest himself entirely of his financial interests in the guardianship estate."

Why doesn't Michael simply turn Terri over to her family?

From the report: "Testimony provided by members of the Schindler family included very personal statements about their desire and intention to ensure that Theresa remain alive . . . at any and all costs. Nearly gruesome examples were given, eliciting agreement by family members that in the event Theresa should contract diabetes and subsequent gangrene in each of her limbs, they would agree to amputate each limb and would then, were she to be diagnosed with heart disease, perform open-heart surgery. Within the testimony, as part of the hypothetical presented, Schindler family members stated that even if Theresa had told them of her intention to have artificial nutrition withdrawn, they would not do it."

Wolfson told me that when Michael heard this, he said: "That's it. I'm never going to let that happen to her."

Wolfson says the Schindlers later recanted their testimony.

Can Terri recover?

"Theresa's neurological tests and CT scans indicate objective measures of the persistent vegetative state," the report says. "These data indicate that Theresa's cerebral cortex is principally liquid, having shrunken due to the severe anoxic trauma experienced 13 years ago."

To read the entire report online, go to OrlandoSentinel.com/schiavo

[bjs1779]

2/27/1990
DeSousa Report
Brainstem Auditory Evoked Response shows no significant disruption of the brain stem acoustic pathway - study within normal limits

2/28/1990
EEG Report Dr. DeSousa
Generalized diffuse slowing. Some fast frequency rhythms which were not obvious during previous recording. May have been slight improvement over last EEG.




6/27/1990
History - Physical Dr. Baras
Had been seen by me at College Harbor and started to make improvement. Started to show some vocalization where she will say no and occasionally has had some voluntary movement on command of eyes and mouth as reported by husband and mother.



1/29/1991
Progress Note Dr. Alcazaran
Meadowbrook, California facility 11/29/90 admitted, seen by Dr. Hosobuchi for DBS placement. Done 12/12/90. Stimulator started 12/17/90. Awakening threashold of 2.7 volts, 50 hz - with eye opening and blinking. 12/19/90 back to Meadowbrook from acute care. Noted to have severe agitated response and fever. Stimulator placed on hold. UTI? 1/9/91 brain stimulator resumed with gradual response. Weined off Dantrim 1/13/91. by 1/17/91 stimulating up to 12 hrs w/ amperage 1.3 Noted increased alertness, turns head toward voice, turns head from tactile stimulation. Sucking and rooting response to olfactory stimulation. Spontaneously vocalized. Good cough. Head midline X 15 sec. Some visual tracking. Upper extremity - ATNR Discharged 1/20/90 Has been home x 1 wk.

2/4/1991
Progress Notes Dr. Carnahan
Both knees increased warmth, start Keflex, question H.O. of knees, repeat alkalyn phosphotase. ? Bone Scan

2/19/1991
Physical Therapy Monthly Summary
Terri came to Mediplex in a completely inadequate chair for her seating needs, as it allows no head support, facilitates her lower extremity abnormal extensor pattern, and her upper extremity flexor pattern. It gives her no trunk support and she literally falls out of the chair,


3/8/1991
Progress Notes Dr. Carnahan
Bone Scan reveals subperiosteal area of right thigh - most likely reflects H.O. Other areas not explained by disease ? Infection. Neoplastic is rare probability.


3/26/1991
Nurses Notes
Terri's side-rail on her bed found down after Michael left. When told about it, he replied that "that was their job."


4/21/1991
MS Journal
Crying spell again, short one this time, keeps fighting falling to sleep. Would not let O.T. do anything / started to cry again, later did a lot better, fights sleep again


4/25/1991
MS Journal
MS talking to her, she then lifted head off and away from chair. I asked her if she wanted to get up. She nodded. I asked her a minute later, she did the same motion.




6/17/1991
Treatment Plan Review
Vocalizing when prone in P.T., occasionally will say "Stop" to nurse during procedures. To T.R. groups. More relaxed to therapists voice, touch (habituation)


6/20/1991
Nursing Notes
1:00 pm Husband concerend over pts increased "jumpiness". Dr. Carnahan in, brain stimulator decreased 20% per Dr.'s verbal order 3:00 pm Husb states decreasing brain stimulator "did not really help her", "but turning her on her side helped for a while"


7/6/1991
Nursing Note M. McCloskey?
Brain stimulator off per husbands request


7/8/1991
Progress Note Dr. Alcazaran
Husband asking about casting ankle. On exam, fixed contracture - tendon shortening. No indication for ….. Or inhibitive casting at present. Also, cast may cause skin breakdown, with worsening hammertoeing.


DEPOSITION OF: MICHAEL SCHIAVO - DATE: November 19, 1993

15 Q Are you presently involved in a romantic

16 relationship with anyone?

17 A Yes, I am.


9 Q Okay. Tell me about the relationship. How long

10 has it been going on?

13 A We just met approximately three months ago. (july-August-1993)

---

1993
Carolyn Johnson affidavit
No therapy per husband's orders. Dr's orders overridden. Patient kept in isolation, no stimulation.

---

DEPOSITION OF: MICHAEL SCHIAVO - DATE: November 19, 1993


4 Q See if that will help you in answering the

5 question. We were contacted -- my office was contacted by

6 the nursing home and they indicated that something had

7 changed as far as the treatment of Terry in July and

8 August and the change had something to do with the

9 direction that you had made, either to the nursing home or

10 to the doctor.

11 My question to you is: Did you -- did you change

12 any directions that you had given to the nursing home or

13 to the doctor prior to that or did you do anything that

14 you're aware of?

15 A Yes.


23 Q You said yes?

24 A Yes.

25 Q What did you do or what did you not do?
___
14

1 A I put a -- after speaking with my doctor, I gave

2 an order not to treat a bladder infection Terry had.

13 Q What was her bladder condition?

14 A She had UTI.

17 Q What is that?

18 A Urinary tract infection.

19 Q What -- did the doctor tell you what the

20 treatment for that would be?

21 A Antibiotic usually.

22 Q And did he tell you what would occur if you

23 failed to treat that infection.

24 A Yes.

25 Q What did he tell you?
.
.
.
7 A The patient would pass on.
.
.
.
19 Q You did instruct the doctor not to treat her

20 bladder condition correct?

21 A Uh-huh, yes.
.
.
22 Q If a similar condition arose in the future,

23 would you do the same thing?
.
.
.
4 A I'm thinking.

6 Take your time.

7 A I probably wouldn't instruct the doctor to do it.
.
.
.
10 Q What you're telling me is, is that there is

11 nothing in your belief or feelings that have changed. The

12 only thing that has changed is the fact that you perceived

13 the law prevents you to do what you intended to do?

14 A Correct.

---

http://www.hospicepatients.org/girlfriend.mp3

---

April 1995 to July 1996
Carla Sauer Iyer affidavit
Michaels orders: no rehab, no range of motion, no nothing. Alert & oriented, spoke regularly "Momma," "Mommy," "Help Me"

[Hildy]

Oh, shut up.

[Hildy]

Your screen name suits you.

[KDD]

From the report: "Testimony provided by members of the Schindler family included very personal statements about their desire and intention to ensure that Theresa remain alive . . . at any and all costs. Nearly gruesome examples were given, eliciting agreement by family members that in the event Theresa should contract diabetes and subsequent gangrene in each of her limbs, they would agree to amputate each limb and would then, were she to be diagnosed with heart disease, perform open-heart surgery. Within the testimony, as part of the hypothetical presented, Schindler family members stated that even if Theresa had told them of her intention to have artificial nutrition withdrawn, they would not do it."

Wolfson told me that when Michael heard this, he said: "That's it. I'm never going to let that happen to her."

I understand now why he is so adamant about this.

[supercat]

From the report: "Testimony provided by members of the Schindler family included very personal statements about their desire and intention to ensure that Theresa remain alive . . . at any and all costs. Nearly gruesome examples were given, eliciting agreement by family members that in the event Theresa should contract diabetes and subsequent gangrene in each of her limbs, they would agree to amputate each limb and would then, were she to be diagnosed with heart disease, perform open-heart surgery. Within the testimony, as part of the hypothetical presented, Schindler family members stated that even if Theresa had told them of her intention to have artificial nutrition withdrawn, they would not do it."

Had the Schindlers agreed to any circumstance where Terri could be starved to death, Michael would have made sure such a circumstance came about.