Posted on 02/23/2005 5:29:08 PM PST by InHisService
First, let me say I am a Christian, and am anti-abortion. I have read quite a bit about the Terri Schiavo case and my heart goes out to her and her family, and yes, even her husband.
I'm quite sure I will take a lot of flak for this opinion, as everyone here seems determined to keep this poor woman alive.
It seems no one is sure whether or not she is in a persistive vegetative state, and doctors on both sides are firm in their convictions.
I only know that if it was me, I would, without a doubt, NOT want to be kept alive this way. Terri doesn't have the capability to state what she wants, but had she been if asked the question when she was healthy, (as her husband states) most likely, she would not want these ongoing court battles, the media circus and the heartbreak for all involved. Really, would any of us want that for our families?
I believe in letting her die with dignity. I do not believe it is murder. I have made sure to tell my family members, if this ever happens to me, do not keep me alive in this state.
May God's will be done.
Good afternoon...I left the thread last nite, shortly after you did and probably for much of the same reasons...things just seemed to go downhill for awhile...
The hubby and myself are still over here in Olympia...tho my hubby retires in 7 short weeks, and we will spend the rest of the year in the area, and then after the holidays, we plan to jump into the RV we just recently bought, and travel and live in it for most of the time, returning home to our house in Olympia, for a short rests if we need them...
Are you enjoying our current beautiful weather?...its sunny and warm, and the skies are so clear, I can see Mt. Rainier every day(which is quite unusual for this time of year, as you well know)...
And back to the point of this thread...I think one poster put it quite well, when saying that all of us need to have it put into writing what we wish for ourselves, if and when we are placed into a situation of poor health when we can no longer speak for ourselves...
A case in point...when I was caring for my mom at home, in her last few years, mom made it know that should she stop breathing she wanted no CPR, no one banging on her chest trying to bring her back...she wanted to be left alone...so we had a DNR drawn up for her to sign(we did this while she was still lucid)...and I taped that DNR paper onto her bedroom door...I did that for the nurses and aides that came to the house on a regular basis, but also had it taped there for myself as well...because my first instinct would have been to call 911 should she stop breathing..and my first instinct would have been to begin CPR myself...so that DNR paper, was up on the door to also remind myself, that I had the obligation to carry out my moms wishes, as I had promised...
Michal Schiavo is a man who would not permit Terri's priest to give her holy communion as she was being starved to death. Withholding dental care would seem to be small potatoes.
It is YOU who are twisted and deceptive. You are not in the service of the same God I serve.
Overlooking her dental hygiene caused abscesses and or infections to the point of extractions. Abscesses, infections are not something that can be easily ignored. A scale and polish of teeth can easily be ignored. Probably why she needed the extractions.
Nonetheless, a troll is a troll.
But who authorized the extractions? If he can specifically order for nursing to ignore oral hygiene he can withhold the extractions. It's quite common to withhold antibiotics from people in vegetative states and provide "comfort care" only - if she were to get an abscess, why wouldn't he also forbid the extractions?
As to whether Terri's parents and "other professionals" are lying, I have no idea, but I have seen a lot of wishful thinking occur in family members. One poor gentleman actually held out hopes his son (in a persistent vegetative state) could someday receive a brain transplant (hint- would you call it a brain transplant or more aptly described as a body transplant). I put most of the reports I've heard from the parents' side of things in this category.
Don't worry. You'll never be mistaken for either and there isn't much evidence for anyone to make a case against you.
I've carefully read every post. You consistently and conveniently ignore the facts that have been presented.
ROFL.
As a Jew, I can tell you that it is ABSOLUTELY FORBIDDEN to take away food from a person who is depending upon it. That is murder. Thankfully, we have experts in the field of ethics in Judaism whom we turn to for guidance. I certainly wouldn't want to go against G-d's will and cause a person to die.
If he didn't allow the extractions, that would mean major trouble for him and serious repercussions had the above occurred.
You make the statement that she is in a vegetative state. The parents have professionals who back them up that she is not in this condition. She has been responsive. Even some staff have admitted to this.
Your story of the parents and son is a truly sad, heartbreaking situation. I understand how you can see Terri's situation that way. This is not the case with Terri. They are not asking for a brain transplant. The parents are asking for the opportunity to care and provide their daughter with medical attention that she has not received. Governor Bush wouldn't have put his reputation on the line and gone out of his way to interfere, if there wasn't a question as to her condition. I can't possibly relay all the pertinent information in a post. If you have an opportunity, please consider reading more of Terri's parents side of the story.
I guess you can't help but lump us all in together, all of us being those with whom you disagree but cannot refute without insults.
But it is OK for you to insult me by implying I serve Satan.
You are absofreakinglutely right. You cannot have a reasonable mature discussion so, sadly, I had to suggest a different web site for you to visit.
absofreakinglutely? Hmm, that is very mature.
And please do not say anything about my faith. You are out of bounds with your final comment. You've been warned.
What are you going to do, tell mommy on me?
:)
The legitimate doctors all agree that Terri is not PVS. Of course, if you're more interested in the quacks that her estranged husband hired, you can find their testimony posted at http://www.terrisfight.org . They all agree that Terri is responsive to various stimuli. You can also find the documents that prove five of her teeth were extracted due to neglect.
I'm always entertained for a few minutes by uneducated people who try to lecture me about the facts. Your few minutes are about up. May I recommend you find out what you're talking about before you go any further?
Thank you.
"I'm sorry but I can't believe the husband could forbid routine hygienic care - it sounds like total hype. A nursing home could lose its license if the inspectors came through and no "order" from the husband could prevent it."
That statement could be logical outside of this maze Terri's in. Stop and think for a moment: the husband has already been given authority by the court to remove the feeding tube, which is what Terri's parents are fighting. If Terri's parents lose, the husband CAN and WILL invoke that authority and have the feeding tube removed, which will result in her death by starvation. And the nursing home won't lose its license, because the court empowered him to do so.
The court has generally empowered him, as the 'husband', in like fashion all along, and his withholding of dental hygiene stemmed from that empowerment, and was therefore not the responsibility of the nursing home. But, in this twisted, convoluted mess of illogic, the nursing home had to have the extractions performed so Terri wouldn't die from an infection, for which they WOULD have been liable. And the husband had to allow the extractions because, at that point, he didn't have the final authority to forbid anything the lack of which would directly cause her death. Now he does.
I guess it's also pitiful that one needs a scorecard to keep track of all the manipulations and contradictions in this situation. All while a life is at stake.
- knightshadow.
Ping!
I don't know if you've seen this one.
1. Terri is responsive
2. Terri is conscious
3. Terri is disabled, even more so now than in the past.
Her parents are willing to care for her and
overcome the abuse of sensory deprivation, inability
to be taken outside, limited visitation, disposal of
any cards and gifts. (I think all of us would be
disabled under those circumstances.
4. No therapy, voice or physical.
5. No medical treatment for colds or infections.
A cancer patient wishing assisted suicide is in a position to request it in some states, they are also in a position to request a DNR.
Terri is not in this position, she did not write anything down and 3 different stories later Michael is the only one who ever heard it, and "heard" it is not enough!
Many of Florida's retirees and vets have become wards of the retirement centers and nursing home, exchanging their assets for lifelong care. By allowing the precedent that will be set in Terri's case, all of these folk could be vulnerable for a death by starvation/dehydration. They would no longer have a choice, it could simply be requested by whomever, after some unscrupulous medical person stated that they were in a vegetative state. The only reason Michael has had to parade this group of charletons is because his action was contested. Retirees and vets whose families live out-of-state wouldn't even know about it until they were gone.
We should all be on our knees thanking God for the Schindlers and asking him to protect Terri!
Amen! Ditto!
Such little faith.
It is very pitiful. Although, some people haven't been following the full story or read information without the full details. It's good they question the situation and learn of the facts of Terri's condition. Then, there are a few, on this thread, that are just being nasty or callous. I question their true motivation posting on this thread.
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