What suffering?!
More info here: YOU BE THE JUDGE: MEDICAL OBSERVATIONS SHOW SCHIAVO COGNITIVE, ALERT
Posted on 02/23/2005 5:29:08 PM PST by InHisService
First, let me say I am a Christian, and am anti-abortion. I have read quite a bit about the Terri Schiavo case and my heart goes out to her and her family, and yes, even her husband.
I'm quite sure I will take a lot of flak for this opinion, as everyone here seems determined to keep this poor woman alive.
It seems no one is sure whether or not she is in a persistive vegetative state, and doctors on both sides are firm in their convictions.
I only know that if it was me, I would, without a doubt, NOT want to be kept alive this way. Terri doesn't have the capability to state what she wants, but had she been if asked the question when she was healthy, (as her husband states) most likely, she would not want these ongoing court battles, the media circus and the heartbreak for all involved. Really, would any of us want that for our families?
I believe in letting her die with dignity. I do not believe it is murder. I have made sure to tell my family members, if this ever happens to me, do not keep me alive in this state.
May God's will be done.
Have you forgotten that God allowed his Son, Jesus, to die horribly on a cross, one of the most painful and awful deaths imaginable? It wasn't until after he rose we understood the reason for His death. You, like so many others here, are so "righteous" and utterly arrogant to assume you know God's will.
A true Christian looks at death as just passing to a better place. Do you remember Christ's words on the cross as he died a horrible death? What do you fear?
I'm not Christian.
By that reasoning, abortion isn't so bad afterall since those babies get to go on to a better place.
A true Christian values all LIFE...
A false Christian tries to be clever and fails.
The fact and manner of Jesus's death has NOTHING to do with Terri Schiavo's potential death by starvation. Your reasoning and logic are malfunctioning.
No, I was not equating the death of Jesus with Terri. Here we go again, reading too much into a statement and twisting it around. You brought up Jesus first. It seems to me God allows a lot of suffering in this life, for many, many people. Terri's suffering can be alleviated.
YOU claimed to be a Christian who believes Terri should be killed - it was YOUR post. YOU brought up Jesus's horrible death in response to my post.
Why are you wasting time posting here? Go to weheartdeath.com or something because we really don't need your garbage over here mucking up the works. You're the one twisting things.
Remember how you told us you didn't want to be kept alive if you started spewing nonsense? Uh oh...!
IHS,
Two questions:
#1 Are you a physician? (the new road kill)
#2 Are you affiliated with CMC? (who needs the car?)
I am so sorry I missed this post last night.... I left the thread hastily under fire. I appreciate your sharing of your family experiences.
My mom also had cancer, and like your dad, at the end, was under so much Morphine that she could not wake up nor feel any pain. Her last admittance to the hospital was quite unexpected. When her systems started to shut down, they shut down all at once. The weekend prior she had been good enough to go to a Jazz festival. I was camping, and not even available to know she was dying, until my dad was able to call a park ranger to find us so we could rush home.
I asked if they could reduce the Morphine a little so that she could talk to me, and the nurses said no, that she'd be in too much pain if allowed to wake. The selfish part of me wanted to them to try.... but I didn't press it and she never woke up. It wasn't about me right then. She was like that three days. I was with her, looking at her face until that image is one of the only pictures I have in my mind any more. she was there.... but she was already gone. When she started to have some mild seizures in her last hours, was the only time she opened her eyes and gripped my hand. I treasured that contact, but it wasn't really her doing it.
Yes, I'm still in Tumwater..... you?
Not arguing. Just giving info.
This statement is from this site: Interview With Dr. Hammesfahr: Startling Revelations
"Terri's feeding tube is for the convenience of nurses; not because Terri needs it. Terri does not drool. Liquid is the hardest thing to swallow, and she swallows 1½ to 2 liters of saliva a day."
People like you just hate it when someone disagrees with you. How sad that you can't have a mature, reasonable discussion without telling someone to leave. You're supposed to be a Christian?
What suffering?!
More info here: YOU BE THE JUDGE: MEDICAL OBSERVATIONS SHOW SCHIAVO COGNITIVE, ALERT
Oh really? I guess that depends on how much value you place on the life of the patient. Some are apparently more valuable than others.
International Task Force on Euthanasia and Assisted Suicide
Q: Isn’t insertion of a g-tube a very risky surgical procedure?A: No, it isn’t. In fact, a case that took place a few years ago indicates that the degree of risk may depend very much on the social status of the patient involved.
Ninety-two-year-old Mary Hier had lived in mental hospitals for more than half her life. She thought she was the Queen of England. She wasn’t terminally ill, but because of a throat problem she had received food by means of a g-tube for more than 10 years.
When that tube became dislodged, the health facility asked permission from her court-appointed guardian to reinsert the tube. He refused, and the case went to court. The court, agreeing with the guardian, said that implanting the tube was a "highly intrusive and highly risky procedure." (5)
Mary Hier’s case got into a Boston newspaper. The paper reported on a similar case at about the same time. The article reported on a 94-year-old woman who was doing well following "minor surgery to correct a nutritional problem." (6) The surgery was performed on an outpatient basis under local anesthesia.
The woman’s name? Rose Kennedy.
The minor surgery? Insertion of a g-tube.
For Mary Hier -- elderly, demented, and without family -- the same surgery was described as "highly invasive and highly risky." For Rose Kennedy -- mother of a president and US senators -- it was a "minor medical procedure."
Draw your own conclusions about the degree of risk.
Fortunately for Mary Hier, last minute intervention resulted in her g-tube being reinserted. She continued to live comfortably for many years -- happily signing her name "Mary Hier, Queen of England."
5. In re Hier, 18 Mass. App. 200, 464 N.E. 2d 959, 964 (1984).6. "Rose Kennedy 'doing well' after surgery," Boston Globe, July 29, 1984, p. 35.
LOL Gonna get too big for my britches...need a spankin'...
(thank you =] )
She spent too much at the hair dresser. No wait, she was punished for that previously. This time she did something even worse. Something that any woman should be put to death for, even if she didn't have a prior record. She told her friends and her brother she was going to get a divorce!
I never said it was risky. I said it was invasive. So is an IV. So is anything that penetrates an orifice or organ (such as the skin) not meant to be penetrated.
Are you saying you're opposed to Terri being allowed to keep her feeding tube on the grounds that it penetrates her body? So does the needle that's normally used to administer pain killers when a tooth is extracted. Terri had five teeth pulled out because her estranged husband would not allow her to receive any type of dental care, including having her teeth brushed. Should she have been allowed pain killers? If so, how would you administer them? She's not allowed to use her ability to swallow for anything other than swallowing her own saliva. So how would you administer pain killers without performing an invasive procedure? When having five teeth yanked, I don't think Orajel would be sufficient.
Please read the full thread before posting questions like this - This was already debated / answered numerous times within this thread -
Of course I understand the difference. Again, read the full thread.
Tell me what her neurologists say (the legitimate ones, not the quacks). Tell me her Glascow coma scale score. Does she respond to pain? I'm sorry but I can't believe the husband could forbid routine hygienic care - it sounds like total hype. A nursing home could lose its license if the inspectors came through and no "order" from the husband could prevent it. The pro-Terri, pro-life group has gone over the cliff on this one.
Yes, a dental extraction is an invasive procedure. If he wouldn't allow hygiene, why would he allow the extraction? I'm sorry but the arguments claiming he's the worst thing next to Hitler just aren't convincing.
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