Iraq is a honeypot. The whole *idea* is for terrorists to go there to be killed by our fully deployed, professional military over there, rather than having them trickle into the U.S. for weekly suicide bombings at your neighborhood McDonald's.
Posted on 01/17/2005 10:35:58 AM PST by Jon Alvarez
Pardon Graner
Now that the media has inundated the world with all the sordid images and details of the "Abu Ghraib Prison Abuse Scandal", and now that Spc. Charles Graner has been found guilty of these so-called "abuses", we should all feel better, right? After all, America has done all she can to prove to the Arab street just how sensitive and caring she is, right? Pardon my French, but this is a bunch of BS! I don't know what kind of goods we're being sold, but I ain't buying and neither should you. War is hell and bad things happen in war. Just ask Army Spc. Matt Maupin.
Matt Maupin, of Batavia, Ohio, is still missing in Iraq. The last time this American soldier was seen he was kneeling in front of a group terrorists on the same kind of sick and sadistic videotape we've seen broadcast on the Arab propaganda network Al-Jazeera. In uniform, supposedly under the protection of the Geneva Convention, in the hands of the very same monsters Spc. Charles Graner and his crew at Abu Ghraib prison have been condemned for being mean and insensitive to. So where is the international outcry over the whereabouts of Spc. Matt Maupin? Where is the condemnation by the United Nations of these non-uniformed terrorists who buried Army Sgt. Elmer Krause and four civilian contractors in a shallow grave after attacking their convoy?
What this author finds so outrageous and disturbing is that so many in the world, Americans included, appear to be more concerned with the rights of non-uniformed terrorists and public relations than actually defeating this evil enemy and bringing THEM to justice. While American casualties are more in line with the War with Mexico, the very fact that we appear to be fighting a "politically correct" war grants some validity to leftist claims that Iraq is another Vietnam. The fact that Army Spc. Graner is going to jail for the mistreatment and abuse of some terrorists, including a non-uniformed Syrian who by his own admission was in Iraq to kill Americans, confirms this. Vietnam should have taught us that we cannot win a "PC" war. Stringing up a few of these guys caught in the act to the nearest light pole is what should be done.
The Geneva Convention was designed to ensure civil treatment of POWs and civilians during a time of war. In other words, while war is a very bad thing, nations do go to war for various reasons. The civilized world felt it necessary to lay out some ground rules for all to follow. However, the Geneva Convention specifically prohibits the taking of hostages and furthermore, does not apply to those that fail to "conduct their operations within the laws and customs of war". In other words, these hostage-taking headcutters, including the non-uniformed Syrian, are not protected by the Geneva Convention. Sadly, this simple fact does not come into play as it is much more fashionable to portray the United States as the bad guy in this current conflict.
While our nation has allowed itself to be distracted by the tsunami disaster in Asia, we will be faced with a similar disaster in Iraq if we allow that country to fall into the hands of the terrorists and Saddam Hussein. Abandoning the people of Iraq, as the naive anti-American leftists here in America would have us do, would be tantamount to unleashing a tsunami on those in Iraq desirous of freedom. We cannot allow political correctness to dictate how we fight the War on Terror. We certainly didn't when we defeated Germany and Japan in World War II. It is up to patriots across this great country to maintain a vigilant state to ensure that this mistreatment of our own soldiers does not happen again. I invite all of you to contact President Bush, your elected officials, and the Army Court of Appeals, urging them to do the right thing and pardon Spc. Charles Graner. Maybe he was a bit overzealous in his treatment of the prisoners at Abu Ghraib, but at least they still have their heads.
I do not ask such personal questions of you or anyone else. I prefer to keep on the subject matter. Rest assured that I did indeed do my turn in the military as did most of us here on FR.
I cannot understand why such information would be of interest to anyone. I have no interest if others served, when or where, etc etc.
now troops will be hesitant in the field...
TIME OUT!
Pull your bus off of the Pretentiousness Turnpike.
Graner was a REMF. Do you know what a REMF is, REMF?
I wonder if these folks who are so critical of an American soldier would take issue with executing a terrorist on the spot when caught in the act?
No. But this wasn't that, and you know it.
Sadly, I see this becoming a "pc" war...new liberal mantra: "have you hugged a terrorist today?" LOL
"Have you hugged a thug today?"
I cannot understand why such information would be of interest to anyone. I have no interest if others served, when or where, etc etc.
Then I would suggest you not make these kinds of challenges to someone who is a vet:
If you read your post 38, it is a reflection of your original post, talking about something you have zero knowledge of.
Sitting in your easy chair and directing a war thousands of miles away indeed must be stressful. My view is that if you are not there and had nothing to do with the affair, dont second guess those that are there. Very easy to condemn others as you and others have done. Having served in the military means nothing when you rant on and on with no facts to substantiate your diatribe.
Service? Most likely before you were born so that childish characterization will not wash either. Turn your venom towards the enemy, not towards someone that is there while you sit at home.
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Or say something like this:
You do the military a great disservice. Personally I saw many in the military that were carbon copies of you. That type are always there and have to be tolerated.
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If you are not willing to provide at least a thumbnail of your service, you ain't in any position to say this kind of stuff to a vet who is, quite frankly.
Iraq is a honeypot. The whole *idea* is for terrorists to go there to be killed by our fully deployed, professional military over there, rather than having them trickle into the U.S. for weekly suicide bombings at your neighborhood McDonald's.
There are a lot of people like that on our Free Republic, unfortunately. They make sweeping pronouncements about war and military requirements but they're a little short on the actual experience. People like cynicom make up for it by ad hominum attacks - while saying that our armed forces should be some part criminals!
How is that any different than the smearing of our fighting men as "war criminals" that John Kerry did in 1971?
Armies are not made up of choir boys. It takes all kinds, from criminals to saints. You seem intelligent enough to be able to place yourself somewhere between the two. Via your posts you have already shown the rest of us where you belong between the two. Have a good day...
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The above deserves the bunny-with-a-pancake-on-it's-head response.
I wouldn't go that nearly far. Both you and cynicom have points. You are correct that Graner did wrong under the UCMJ. Cynicom is correct in that the sentence probably reflects political considerations, not just the situation on the ground as it happened.
We don't need to have folks flaming each other so hard over what, at the end of the day, are differences in interpretation.
Not too much can be added to what you said but the highest
standard Graner erected was when he was in the sack with
Lindy, his accomplice.
Pretty fundamental difference in interpretation! Cynicom and the guy that started this thread seem to believe that Graner and his fellow criminals should be let off - and cynicom continues with his pronouncements that we have criminals in our ranks. I don't know what branch of service, if any, cynicom served in but criminals in the Marine Corps were and are dealt with immediately. The sense of honor, that living to a higher standard of duty, is the main reasons I stayed with the Marine Corps for 27 active years of service.
A war is fought on several fronts and one of those fronts is earning the trust of the people that you're fighting to free. If the American people allow the Graners and their supporters to determine the direction, we will have lost this war and a lot more as time progresses. We have a choice: we either fight as people with a mission to free other people, or we fight as thugs and earn the disgust of the world.
Don't claim to be a "conservative" if you think that Graner and his people's actions should condoned.
In post 60, cynicom said this:
You see anywhere that I suggested he was innocent??? Heavens no. Court martial the man, six months imprisonment and BCD.
So cynicom seems to objecting to the sentence, not the conviction.
In post 60, cynicom said this:
You see anywhere that I suggested he was innocent??? Heavens no. Court martial the man, six months imprisonment and BCD.
So cynicom seems to objecting to the sentence, not the conviction.
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