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Kerry not Honorably Discharged?
"Steve" Nash, MAC Ret, UDT/SEAL Authentication Team -Director ^ | 18 Sep 2004 | Steve Nash

Posted on 09/19/2004 8:38:35 PM PDT by grace522

IF YOU ARE A KERRY FAN PLEASE READ THIS... YOU MAY NOT WANT TO BELIEVE IT, AND YOU WILL NOT LIKE IT, BUT YOU CAN CHECK THE RECORDS.. I know there's a lot of these going around, but this one is verrrrry interesting.... > [Original Message] Subject: Kerry's Military Record? Oh What a Tangled Web He Weaves...

Now that the Kerry team has again raised the issue of President Bush service in the Texas Air National Guard they should be held to answer the question below outlined by Mr. Steve Nash, US Navy, Retired. If Kerry would release all of his Military records, this issue could be put to bed.

"Steve" Nash, MAC Ret, UDT/SEAL Authentication Team -Director

Authentin SEAL Phone 707 438 0120 "The only service where all investigators are US Navy Seals" http://www.authentiseal.org

Military Record

Unlike McCain, Bush, and Gore,,,, Kerry has adamantly refused to authorize the release of his military records. Most think it'because of his phony battle medals. I think the real reason is below. He was not granted an Honorable Discharge until March 2001, almost 30 years after his ostensible service term had ended!

This is very much out of the ordinary, and highly suspect. There are 5 classes of Discharge: Honorable, General, Other Than Honorable, Bad Conduct,and Dishonorable.

My guess is that he was Discharged in the '70s, but not Honorably. He appealed this sometime while Clinton was in the Oval Office; Political pressure was applied, and the Honorable Discharge was then granted. His file is probably rife with reports of this, submissions and hearings on the appeal, reports of his "giving aid and comfort" to the enemy, along with protests that were filed with respect to his alleged valor under fire.

This will blow up in his face before October 15th. ================================================================

On 18 Feb. 1966 John Kerry signed a 6 year enlistment contract with the Navy (plus a 6-month extension during wartime). On 18 Feb. 1966 John Kerry also signed an Officer Candidate contract for 6 years -- 5 years of ACTIVE duty & ACTIVE Naval Reserves, and 1 year of inactive standby reserves (See items #4 & $5). Because John Kerry was discharged from TOTAL ACTIVE DUTY of only 3 years and 18 days on 3 Jan. 1970, he was then required to attend 48 drills per year,and not more than 17 days active duty for training. Kerry was also subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Additionally, Kerry, as a commissioned officer, was prohibited from making adverse statements against his chain of command or statements against his country,especially during time of war. It is also interesting to note that Kerry did not obtain an honorable discharge until Mar. 12, 2001 even though his service obligation should have ended July 1, 1972.

Lt. John Kerry's letter of 21 Nov. 1969 asking for an early release from active US Navy duty falsely states "My current regular period of obligated service would be completed in December of this year."

On Jan. 3, 1970 Lt. John Kerry was transferred to the Naval Reserve Manpower Center in Bainridge, Maryland.. Where are Kerry's Performance Records for 2 years of obligated Ready Reserve, the 48 drills per year required and his not more than 17 days of active duty per year training while Kerry was in the Ready Reserves? Have these records been released? Has anyone ever talked to Kerry's Commanding Officer at the Naval Reserve Center where Kerry drilled?

On 1 July 1972 Lt. John Kerry was transferred to Standby Reserve Inactive.

On 16 February 1978 Lt. John Kerry was discharged from US Naval Reserve.

Below are some of the crimes Lt. Kerry USNR committed as a Ready Reservist, while he was acting as a leader of Vietnam Veterans Against the War:

1. Lt. Kerry attended many rallies where the Vietcong flag was displayed while our flag was desecrated, defiled, and mocked, thereby giving aid and comfort to the enemy.

2. Lt. Kerry was involved in a meeting that voted on assassinating members of the US Senate.

3. Lt. Kerry lied under oath against fellow soldiers before the US Senate about crimes committed in Vietnam.

4. Lt. Kerry professed to being a war criminal on national television, and condemned the military and the USA.

5. Lt Kerry met with NVA and Vietcong communist leaders in Paris, in direct violation of the UCMJ and the U.S. Constitution.

Lt. Kerry by his own words & actions violated the UCMJ and the U.S.Code while serving as a Navy officer. Lt. Kerry stands in violation of Article 3, Section 3 of the U.S. Constitution. Lt. Kerry's 1970 meeting with NVA Communists in Paris is in direct violation of the UCMJ's Article 104 part 904, and U.S Code 18 U.S.C. 953. That meeting, and Kerry's subsequent support of the communists while leading mass protests against our military in the year that followed, also place him in direct violation of our Constitution's Article 3, Section 3, which defines treason as "giving aid and comfort" to the enemy in time of warfare.

The Constitution's Fourteenth Amendment, Section 3, states, "No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President having previously taken an oath to support the Constitution of the United States, [who has] engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof." ...........................................end..............


TOPICS: Politics
KEYWORDS: discharge; honorabledischarge; kerry; kerrydischarge; napalminthemorning
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To: Smartass; Boazo
Trolls . .

Ping on #79 - very appropriate.

81 posted on 09/19/2004 10:24:31 PM PDT by Happy2BMe (46 days until November 2nd)
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To: grace522

I believe bad momma is a troll and has made some obscene comments... I reported, Moderator decides :-)


82 posted on 09/19/2004 10:30:28 PM PDT by Tamzee (Ted Koppel --- "....the media will need a stepstool to rise to the level of used car salesmen.")
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To: grace522
It is also interesting to note that Kerry did not obtain an honorable discharge until Mar. 12, 2001 even though his service obligation should have ended July 1, 1972.

I must have missed something. kerry's campaign website has posted an honorable discharge dated Feb 1978. http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilservice/Honorable_Discharge_From_Reserve.pdf. Where can I find the discharge dated Mar 2001? I'm not familiar with military documents, so maybe I'm just reading the wrong document. I still think they'd have been better off putting someone with my level of expertise in charge of their Military Document Forgery Department.

83 posted on 09/19/2004 10:34:14 PM PDT by BykrBayb (5 minutes of prayer for Terri, every day at 11 am EDT, until she's safe. http://www.terrisfight.org)
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To: bad momma
oh grace, 522, what color is your discharge. Would it be anyone's business to ask or know. something to think about!

Mine are sort of an off-biege. Tell JF'nK that I've an extra if he needs one.

84 posted on 09/19/2004 10:35:54 PM PDT by struwwelpeter
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To: Casloy
If he had been court martialed you would know about it. < snip > ...there is no evidence of a court martial.

How do you know this? Have you seen all of his military records, or just the copies he posted on his site with the claim that they are complete and accurate? Until he signs the SF-180, lack of records does not prove the records do not exist.

85 posted on 09/19/2004 10:47:15 PM PDT by BykrBayb (5 minutes of prayer for Terri, every day at 11 am EDT, until she's safe. http://www.terrisfight.org)
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To: grace522

Thanks for serving and welcome to FR, Air Force brother.


86 posted on 09/19/2004 10:58:07 PM PDT by Mr. Silverback (If the Cambodia "lie" 100% discredits John O'Neill, what do 50 Cambodia lies do for Kerry?)
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To: BykrBayb

You may be right, but I think a court martial is a matter of public record. It wouldn't be confined to just his personnel file. Furthermore, a court martial involves a lot of people and I would have to assume that by now one of them would have popped up either during his senate campaigns or more recently.
There is one possibility. I know from working at the Stockade at Ft Riley Kansas for a couple of months back in 71 that enlisted men were often given the choice of a court martial or accepting a less than honorable discharge. I doubt they would do that to a commissioned officer and I think the rules about discharges, etc are or were different for officers than for enlisted men.

I just find it very hard to believe Kerry could cover up a court martial and bad discharge. It's not out of the realm of possibility, but I very much doubt it is true.


87 posted on 09/19/2004 11:02:44 PM PDT by Casloy
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To: Mike Fieschko
Because he wasn't being discharged at that time. He was being separated. His status was changing. Freepers who've served have stated elsewhere, that when a member goes from active duty to reserve, they get a DD214.

I can confirm that. The day I left the active Air Force I was given a DD214 and an 18 month commitment in the Inactive Ready Reserve.

88 posted on 09/19/2004 11:15:43 PM PDT by Mr. Silverback (If the Cambodia "lie" 100% discredits John O'Neill, what do 50 Cambodia lies do for Kerry?)
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To: grace522

You get a DD214 every time you are released from Active DUTY, not Active Status. Here is the proof:

http://arpc.afrc.af.mil/separations/dischargecertificate.htm

I was incorrect about one minor detail...guard and reserve only get a DD214 when released from 90 days of Active Duty, not 30.

When you are discharged from the guard completely,it is another form. I'm not crazy on this. I've got two DD214s from when I completed my Active Duty times of more than 90 days and I got a third, DIFFERENT form when I was discharged from the Guard completely, but it was NOT a DD214.

The website I listed explains that I am correct.


89 posted on 09/19/2004 11:33:45 PM PDT by JayRay (On November 2 Don't Turn the White House Into The Waffle House!)
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To: FairOpinion
I thought the only one public is from 2001.

Would someone please tell me where I can find it? The closest I've come to it is a DD-215 that was filled out in March 2001. That is not the same thing as an Honorable Discharge. I'm beginning to think this is a hoax.

90 posted on 09/19/2004 11:37:49 PM PDT by BykrBayb (5 minutes of prayer for Terri, every day at 11 am EDT, until she's safe. http://www.terrisfight.org)
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To: grace522; ConservativeMan55; 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub; JulieRNR21; Cindy; Smartass; sweetliberty; ..
I *am* sorry, and apologize to you if you've already seen this thread, but it DID seem to me to be TOO IMPORTANT TO MISS... Looks like *further evidence* of Kerry's malfeasance and dishonor of the uniform may be coming... WHEW!

SIGN THE FORM, JOHN!!! ...BUMP !!!

(Please FReepmail if you want on, or off, this list. I certainly have no desire to increase anyone’s stress-level. Thanks!!!)


91 posted on 09/19/2004 11:40:34 PM PDT by Seadog Bytes (OPM* - The Liberal solution to all of society's problems. (*...Other Peoples' Money))
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To: Smartass; stockpirate; 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

Good find!

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1220981/posts?page=61#61


92 posted on 09/19/2004 11:46:50 PM PDT by BykrBayb (5 minutes of prayer for Terri, every day at 11 am EDT, until she's safe. http://www.terrisfight.org)
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To: U S Army EOD

See? He's done plenty of 180s. No need to sign one.


93 posted on 09/19/2004 11:59:02 PM PDT by BykrBayb (5 minutes of prayer for Terri, every day at 11 am EDT, until she's safe. http://www.terrisfight.org)
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To: crushelits

In my hypothesis, Kerry’s request for full pardon was granted. Kerry applied for his military records to be corrected accordingly, and applied for an honorable discharge. The Secretary of the Navy wrote to Kerry on Feb 16 1978, enclosing an Honorable Discharge Certificate and stating:

“This action is taken in accordance with the approved recommendations of a board of officers convened ... to examine the official records of officers of the Naval Reserve on inactive duty and determine whether they should be retained on the rolls of the Reserve Component or separated from the naval service pursuant to Secretarial instructions promulgated in reference [c].”



This may explain why he has numerous citations for his Silver Star and other decorations. All signed at different times.

It is customary to strip all decorations from an individual who is discharged dishonorably.

Over the years, he might have petitioned to get them back. Friendly military leaders may have signed on.

Just a thought.


94 posted on 09/19/2004 11:59:14 PM PDT by Jet Jaguar (Who would the terrorists vote for?)
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To: mhking

Put Dan Rather on the case.


95 posted on 09/20/2004 12:08:22 AM PDT by PeoplesRepublicOfWashington (Kerry/Edwards--Because when you're full of it you need two Johns.)
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To: grace522

Pardoned by Carter in 1977?

The record is puzzling. Why would Kerry claim hero status and then refuse to allow us to see his record and allow every reader to confirm his claims? Why, even in war time, does Kerry’ service in the USNR appear to stretch from 1966 to 1978, 12 years? How does one explain the strange irregularities (multiple citations for his Silver Star) and inconsistencies in the Kerry military records that are available? Why does the 6 year (plus six month?) USNR obligation begun by Kerry in 2/66 appear to end in 1/70 again, in time of war, even though available records seem to indicate that the terminal date of his reserve obligation was 17 Feb 1972? Why are the documents that should be available, not there? The answers to all these question may be linked and surprisingly obvious. My thesis would be very easy to disprove (if it is false) by simply releasing Kerry’s entire military record.

Even if you include a lot of puffery and self-promotion, Kerry’s in-country record in late 1968 and early 1969 was exceptional and one to be admired and honored. But, for reasons we do not yet understand, in roughly late 1969, Kerry turned bad.

In late 1969, Kerry asked for an early release from “active duty”even though he had re-upped to serve on active duty until August, 1970. He said he wished to enter the democrat party primary, held in September, 1970 in Massachusetts, to be a candidate for Congress for the Third District. He was detached from active duty effective 4:00 PM, 2 January 1970 and specifically reminded the he assumed “... The status of a member of the Naval Reserve on inactive duty.”

The paper trail of available Navy records disappears for almost 8 years. In March, 1970, Kerry drops out of the Congressional primary in favor of the notorious Father Drinan, Dean of Boston College Law School (where Kerry later attended law school, 1973-1976). From early, 1970 through the Summer of 1973, Kerry takes part in activities involving war protests, meeting in Paris with Viet Cong representatives and the leadership of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War. These activities, some of which may have been legal, were of very questionable patriotism for an honest citizen of the US but certainly inappropriate for a US Naval officer.

That’s pretty much fact. Now, the thesis that explains the rest of the mysteries. I believe that Kerry was court martialed in the early 70s or otherwise terminated from the USNR under conditions other than honorable. Whatever actually happened represented a stain on Kerry’s record that might not have been taken lightly even by voters in Massachusetts.

Then, on January 21,1977, Democrat President Jimmy Carter (POTUS - January 20,1977 - January 20,1981) gave a blanket pardon, in Proclamation 4483, to certain offenders as follows:
“Acting pursuant to the grant of authority in Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution of the United States, I, Jimmy Carter, President of the United States, do hereby grant a full, complete and unconditional pardon to: (1) all persons who may have committed any offense between August 4, 1964 and March 28, 1973 in violation of the Military Selective Service Act or any rule or regulation promulgated thereunder; and (2) all persons heretofore convicted, irrespective of the date of conviction, of any offense committed between August 4, 1964 and March 28, 1973 in violation of the Military Selective Service Act, or any rule or regulation promulgated thereunder, restoring to them full political, civil and other rights.”

Thus, if my thesis is correct, Kerry’s offense must have occurred between 2 January 1970 and March 28, 1973. My thesis suggests that during 1977, Kerry made application for full pardon under the administrative procedures promulgated by the Office of the Pardon Attorney, Department of Justice. He almost certainly sought and received the support of Massachusetts Senator Kennedy who had much clout in the Carter administration. Kennedy may have been responsible for suggesting that the records of such a fine young man be embellished by Citations from the Secretary of the Navy, rather than a mere admiral, and in other details not yet known.

In my hypothesis, Kerry’s request for full pardon was granted. Kerry applied for his military records to be corrected accordingly, and applied for an honorable discharge. The Secretary of the Navy wrote to Kerry on Feb 16 1978, enclosing an Honorable Discharge Certificate and stating:

“This action is taken in accordance with the approved recommendations of a board of officers convened ... to examine the official records of officers of the Naval Reserve on inactive duty and determine whether they should be retained on the rolls of the Reserve Component or separated from the naval service pursuant to Secretarial instructions promulgated in reference [c].”

The reference, “[c],”is to “BUPERSMAN 3830300.” A Google search did not provide any information regarding the text of this provision. But, this might explain why he was discharged 12 long years after enlistment.
This hypothesis explains the inconsistencies in Kerry’s record and makes it clear why he acts like a three card Monte dealer in insisting that we watch his time in Nam very carefully and not pay attention to what happened afterward. It is exactly the position Benedict Arnold took with respect to what happened at West Point and afterward.

Proofs? Well, no. Certainly, the official USNR file on Kerry would quickly prove or disprove my thesis. Kerry refuses to sign a Standard Form 180 authorizing the Navy to release it, suggesting that Kerry has much more to lose by showing his records than by continuing to conceal material information. Kennedy? Not likely that his office would say anything that might negatively effect Kerry even though it might be in the nation’s best interest. It is, after all, Kennedy. The US Navy? It is unlikely that the Navy would, of its own volition, risk alienating a sitting US Senator and a man who might be the next CinC. Kerry’s first wife, Julia Thorne, who went to Paris with Kerry when he met with the Viet Cong, and her brother, David H. Thorne, certainly might be able to add facts but, would the old timey, ultra-left wing, liberal media even ask them?

But, there is a another possibility. Many aspects of the Presidential Pardon/Clemency process are matters of public record, in the Department of Justice. If Jimmy Carter pardoned Kerry, there should be a public record that Kerry shouldn’t be able to conceal. An applicant appears to be told in the application process:

"A record of each Certificate of Pardon will be maintained in the Office of the Pardon Attorney as an official record, together with your application form and any other documents compiled in the course of processing your request. The Pardon Attorney may disclose the contents of such files to anyone when the disclosure is required by law or the ends of justice. In particular, public record documents that may be compiled in the course of processing an application, such as the judgment order from the criminal case for which pardon is sought, trial or sentencing transcripts, court opinions, and newspaper articles, are generally made available upon request by third-parties (including representatives of the news media) pursuant to the Freedom of Information Act, unless such disclosure could reasonably be expected to constitute an unwarranted invasion of the petitioner's personal privacy. In addition, unsolicited Congressional correspondence is treated in the same manner. On the other hand, non-public documents that may be compiled in the course of processing an application, such as the application form itself, are not generally available under the Freedom of Information Act."

The DoJ procedures indicate:
"Publicly available information for which a FOIA request is not required:

Publicly available information: Executive clemency statistics from the administration of President McKinley to the present; rules governing the pardon attorney and petitions for executive clemency published at 28 C.F.R. §§ 0.35-36 and § 1.1 et seq.; forms for applying for executive clemency; publication: Civil Disabilities of Convicted Felons: A State-by-State Survey (October 1996); copies of clemency warrants and proclamations for persons who have been granted executive clemency; description of clemency procedures contained in United States Attorney's Manual at § 1-2.110 et seq.; whether an individual has applied for executive clemency and action on such application."

Thus, I would urge any individual or member of the media with an interest in learning the truth about Kerry’s total military record to contact/visit the Office of the Pardon Attorney, Department of Justice and inquire whether there are any records for John Forbes Kerry. Check variations of Kerry’s name (intentional misfiling?), things like “John Kerry Forbes.” Kerry’s Social Security Number appears to be shown, unredacted, on a 17 Dec 1970 document in his file but his Military ID number is not known. Finally, don’t limit inquiries to actions under Proclamation 4483, President Carter may have taken some clemency action because key party members may have required him to. Finally, From a reading of the above, it appears that certain information should be available on a “walk in” basis and other information must be requested via FOIA application.

"The offices of record are :
FOIA Contact:

Samuel T. Morison, Attorney Advisor Office of the Pardon Attorney 4th Floor, 500 First Street, N.W. Department of Justice Washington, DC 20530-0001 (202) 616-6070
Conventional Reading Room:
United States Department of Justice Office of the Pardon Attorney 4th Floor, 500 First Street, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20530"

Several observations: It is indeed unfortunate that a man who would be President, so distrusts the American public and his own background that he hides material information in his military records in the hope of hornswoggling the electorate, of tricking us into believing he is one thing when, in fact, he may be another. Second, the above process should have long ago been followed by the media. It is also unfortunate that most of the traditional media are far too interested in electing Kerry to bother with doing any fact finding or reporting of information that might dissuade the electorate or present the truth.

Proof? Again, no, no proof, but as long as Kerry in his arrogance, refuses to trust Americans, we have the right to make assumptions about his dishonesty, mendacity and refusal to be candid and to assume that he uses similar duplicity with respect to other matters, as well. The above represents my current best guess about why Kerry is being dishonest and what he is hiding.


96 posted on 09/20/2004 12:11:16 AM PDT by crushelits
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To: grace522
Unlike McCain, Bush, and Gore,,,, Kerry has adamantly refused to authorize the release of his military records. Most think it'because of his phony battle medals. I think the real reason is below. He was not granted an Honorable Discharge until March 2001, almost 30 years after his ostensible service term had ended!

If true, this would explain why he didn't run for President or entertain talk of being a running mate until '04.

We knew there had to be a bombshell in his records, or he would have sought to diffuse the Swift Vets ASAP. This would fit the bill.

97 posted on 09/20/2004 12:22:06 AM PDT by L.N. Smithee (The Final Score: Buckhead 1, Talking Head 0)
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Comment #98 Removed by Moderator

To: TheWyzzyrd

Check this out.


99 posted on 09/20/2004 12:47:47 AM PDT by Lovergirl (Proud member of the Pajama Brigade.)
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To: grace522

Are the Dems trying to get us to bite on a false memo?

Besides, didn't Carter grant all the deserters amnesty?


100 posted on 09/20/2004 12:48:38 AM PDT by patriciaruth (They are all Mike Spanns)
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