Posted on 07/25/2004 10:03:03 PM PDT by Coleus
I am distressed at the display of ignorance on the part of some of my fellow engineers on this thread. Public education ain't what it used to be.
But who gives you the authority to decide who deserves legal protection? Why do you get to impose your religion on the world? Do blacks deserve "any legal protections?" If some people think they don't how are we supposed to justify that they do? Some people I know don't think conservatives do. etc. etc. Why does the government get to decide who has rights?
God permits all kinds of things but that does not mean that he approves of things such as invitro fertilization.
You may ask what is wrong with making a baby in a test tube and then implanting it in a woman's womb? God created that soul didn't he?
Here is the answer. The baby has a soul but God did not actively will that soul to come into being.
The soul from an invetro ferilization happens because medical scientists want to play God. In playing God- they create several fertilized eggs in an artificial situation- i.e. a petri dish not natural sex between husband and wife. Also the husband had to masturbate in order to get his semen which is condemned as spilling the seed Gn 38:9-10. Onan was killed for spilling his seed as an example that the conjugal union between husband and wife must not be thwarted and that procreation from this act must not be thwarted.
These fertility doctors take these little souls and try to then implant them inside the woman but most of these little souls are destroyed in the process. It is like having several early abortions in one sitting because you are taking all of these little souls and very few if any are able to implant in the womb of their mother. Others are frozen for years without the benefit of allowing to live a normal human existence with the benefit of the sacraments and baptism which enables them to go to heaven.
The question is this- does a woman have a right above nature or licit means of medication to enhance her fertility? Why don't people trust in God more?? Can not you see the madness in this- we have all of this contraception and abortion to prevent human life from coming into existence and then we have this other extreme of artificial method i.e. invetro that destroys human relationships. Those babies who are frozen or destroyed in the process never have the opportunity to know their parents. So maybe one life comes from this but thousands are destroyed or placed on a sterile lab shelf.
Here is another consideration- I heard an obstetrician tell me when she used to do this technique of invetro fertilization that couples would get very upset when it wasn’t working and that many would get divorced over it instead of accepting that God made them infertile for a reason and that they should adopt. This doctor told me they often divorced. Then they argued and sued each other over what was to become of the remaining frozen embryos. One woman ended up have multiple births because of this unnatural method and she felt so overwhelmed she contemplated suicide- and she even had help from parents and family who took care of some of the babies for her.
Then did you ever think that this is Aldux Huxley’s “Brave New World” where babies are grown in an artificial situations like artificial wombs which they are now working on? They will literally create these invetro artificial womb babies for the purpose of making a human war machine, or harvesting human organs, or human slavery. The possible scenarios are endless and don’t think it can not happen. Adolf Hitler would have loved this invetro/ cloning technology. The idea of the movie “The Boys from Brazil” doesn’t seem so crazy considering the lunacy of so many doctors who push the boundaries of civilized medicine every day. You are being very simplistic in what you are saying.
The best reason however, is that it is wrong because the Church which Christ founded- Holy Catholic Church says its wrong because it goes against the natural law and being made in God’s image. God could have chosen this method to impregnate the Virgin Mary but He did not. He could have had Christ be born in the 21 century and done it in that method but He did not nor could He ever because then this would go against His nature of being all Good and Wisdom itself. The Holy Spirit came and overshadowed Mary and she conceived and bore a son- the son of the living God Jesus Christ. This was not through some cold process of a petri dish but a powerful miracle which took place INSIDE her body. No woman should want to create new life or begin a baby by a process concocted by mad Dr. Frankensteins who are in it for the glory and to make themselves a name as “fertility specialists.”
Can you imagine telling your child- “the doctor made you not momy and dady in cooperation with God? You started in a test tube! This is gross because it is a dehumanizing process not the relational process which God made using natural intercourse between a husband and wife. This mixing of the reproductive parts of people leads to all kinds of wrong things like surrogate mothers, lesbian couples using sperm banks and invetro to have children, children who don’t know who their real fathers are and the attitude that people can use any means they want to achieve what they think it a good end and cloning. I am my own momy and dady. We are living in a brave new world and if we are not careful we are going to self destruct. Brook Shield's artificial method to begin a family is wrong and her marriage will probably self destruct as most Hollywood marriages do.
Nick, I said I was done on this. It is a subjective judgment. We all get to make them, and then advocate them in the public square. Ain't democracy grand? You, and my good friend Walsh, and a bunch of others think killing a zygote is murder, and draw the line at the fertilized egg. I draw the line at sentience. You might not like that, or disagree with where I draw the line, but heck, you probably don't agree with my views on gay marriage or progressive taxation, and some other stuff either. That doesn't make either of us right or wrong per se in an objective sense (unless one asserts that gay marriage has led to more out of wedlock births based on the statistical evidence available to date with a 95% confidence level, which would indeed be wrong). I know the concept might be subtle, but maybe someone here will grasp it.
While others might be confused (though I would never make that assertion) I know I am not. I just happen to disagree that an artificially fertilized egg lying in a petri dish is a human being.
You, of course, are entitled to your opinbion and I'll respect it. I'm entitled to mine.
PS: Bumper stickers are in, yours will be on the way tomorrow.
Was your grandma and your great great one who needs help? Did you ever read Aldus Huxley's "Brave New World" or Orwell's "1984"?
What makes you think this method is so great? What makes you think that it is wise to play with the reproductive elements of humans? I suppose then that cloning is OK too in your view? Hey I am my own mommy! Yah that is a great thought. It takes a village doesn't it? Marx thought that its in his writings. What about two parents who exchange natural human love and produce a child and what about adoption for those who are infertile instead of playing God?? Oh I forgot too many women are having abortions these days who don't want there babies, which is why people have to go to a poor country like Mexico or Russia. Gee do you think abortion is such a great idea also for those who "choose" it??
Did you ever think that invetro fertilization is also several abortions in one sitting because most of the embryo’s don't survive in the attempt to implant? Doesn’t it make you sick to think that human souls are imprisoned in petri dishes sitting on shelves in laboratories? The Dr. Frankenstien’s of the world are responsible for this madness not the good people like you put down who are trying to defend human life and human respect and dignity.
What a ridiculous statement of course masturbation isn't genocide but it's wrong because it defeats the purpose of what semen was made for not that every seed is going to make a baby as God determines this- no one ever said it was genocide, but all Protestant denominations taught that masturbation was wrong and that contraception was wrong up until the Anglican Lambeth Council in 1930 I think. That was the same denomination which now teaches that homosexuality is OK and homosexual marriage and ministers are OK as well. That was the same denomination whoes founder murdered 5 or 6 of his wives because they could not produce him a male heir to the thrown. Read Gen 38: 9-10 and Gn 1: 27-28 for what is a blessing and what is a curse.
If you are more of an atheist here is a quote for you
4.Freud writes, 'Moreover it is a characteristic common to all the perversions that in them reproduction as an aim is put aside, this is actually the criterion by which we judge whether a sexual activity is perverse, if it departs from reproduction in its aims, and pursues the attainment of gratification independently. You will understand therefore that the gulf and turning point in the development in the sexual life lies at the point of its subordination to the purposes of reproduction. Everything that occurs before this conversion takes place and everything which refuses to it, that is to the purposes of reproduction and serves the pursuit of gratification alone is called by the unhonored title of perversion, and as such is despised, taken from The quotation area from a series of lectures given by Freud in Vienna during the school year 1917-1918 Freud General Introduction to Psychoanalysis, published by Liverwright publishing Company in 1935. page 277.' see Natural Law and Birth Control by Scott Hahn
http://www.geocities.com/most_holy_trinity/NATLAW.html .
Who would think the words uttered by Charlton Heston in a left-wing, Sci-Fi movie would be true today?
It's a shame how humanity is digressing. I often wonder how God feels about IVF? Is He happy about it? Is this what he meant by procreation in the sanctity and sacrament of marriage?
No question about it - put a chemical in your body for 25 years to thwart a natural biological function which is dong what is supposed to be doing i.e making babies for the purpose of rendering it impotent and it is going to effect you spiritually, physically and emotionally. It is not healthy or normal. But the pharmaceutical companies love it because it makes them rich at the expense of women and there families. Some of these so called birth control methods have actually led to some women’s deaths as well as the deaths of their babies. This is what the IUD can do, RU486 and the regular birth control pill.
God doesn't cause bad things to happen, so His moving in mysterious ways is null and void on this topic.
As for anyone suffering negative things from birth control, I'd like to mention something that perhaps you are unaware of. Each of my wives took birth control bills to help regulate their cycles. Both suffered from iron deficiencies and when their cycles were uncontroled, their health suffered. That problem can have severe negative complications. The idea that eaither of them should be punished for trying to improve their health is Satanic in my view. Just thought you might like to know that.
Not everything in life is as black and white as some might think. There are often mitigating factors.
As for abortion, I don't know how you could even bring that up not knowing whether this person has every had one.
I am against abortion. I do not want women aborting their children. On the other hand, there has to be some reason behind the process of asking them not to. Denying a woman the ability to try to have a child because a fertilized egg might be destroyed extremely early in the process, seems a luntic fringe position IMO.
What do you say we stop all abortions after four weeks before we start working on the 24 hour goal. You'll be able to get a lot more people on your side and that could impact things a great deal.
All you're going to accomplish this way is allienate anyone who would normally agree with you.
Nick, unless you are God, you are no more omnipotent than I. I disagree with you. That doesn't make me any closer to Satan than you are. It also doesn't make you any closer to God than I.
Thanks for the comments.
I for one am glad you posted it. I have always felt terribly sas about all the in-vitro babies who died to let the "best" child in the litter live. May God have mercy on us.
sas=sad
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I never said anything about Satan, or compared myself to God or omnipotence. What are you talking about?
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