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Genetic Changes In Mice 'Question Evolution Speed'
Ananova ^ | 5-21-2003

Posted on 05/21/2003 4:53:28 PM PDT by blam

Genetic changes in mice 'question evolution speed'

A species of mouse has evolved dramatically in just 150 years, showing genetic change can occur much faster than was thought possible.

The discovery was made by accident by two American biologists studying the genetic make-up of a common wild mouse in Chicago.

Dr Dennis Nyberg and Dr Oliver Pergams, both from the University of Illinois at Chicago, analysed DNA samples from 56 museum specimens of the white-footed mouse dating back to 1855, and 52 wild mice captured from local forests and parks.

They found startling genetic differences between the 19th century and modern mice.

Only one of the present-day mice had DNA that matched that of mice collected before 1950.

While fast evolutionary change has been seen in fruit flies, such rapid evolution in a mammal has not been reported before.

The scientists, whose findings appear in the journal Nature, believe humans may have been partly responsible for the "new" mice.

"Settlers may have brought in mice with the favourable gene that were able to out-compete mice with the native variant," said Dr Pergams.

Story filed: 18:18 Wednesday 21st May 2003


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: crevolist; genetics
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To: js1138
You mean the post where he compared himself to the woman beater that women always go back to? Or do you mean the posts where he implied that anyone who would converse with Alamo-girl is a sissy?

Yes. Quite revealing, no?

1,501 posted on 05/29/2003 9:24:12 AM PDT by balrog666 (When in doubt, tell the truth. - Mark Twain)
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To: gore3000
And you have chosen the clueless one, road that is.
1,502 posted on 05/29/2003 9:25:29 AM PDT by Aric2000 (Are you on Grampa Dave's team? I am!! $5 a month is all it takes, come join!!!)
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To: donh
conglomeration of co-operative multi-cellulars.

"co-operative single-cellulars", I meant to say. Sorry.

1,503 posted on 05/29/2003 9:25:42 AM PDT by donh (/)
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To: donh
"Sleeping single in a multicell" placemarker.
1,504 posted on 05/29/2003 9:27:57 AM PDT by Junior (Computers make very fast, very accurate mistakes.)
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To: ALS
Congrats on winning the send an eloon on a wild goose chase award! I really was expecting another party to run off with this prize, but you'll do nicely.

You make a false statement (attributing one of your bogus quotes to a winner of the non-existant "Nobel Peace Prize in Science"): I call you on it; you post a hyperlink which you claim supports your (false) statement; someone posts that the hyperlink does not support your statement; and you post the above admission that you were sending us on a "wild goose chase."

Sounds like a disruptor to me.

1,505 posted on 05/29/2003 9:37:55 AM PDT by Lurking Libertarian (Non sub homine, sed sub Deo et lege)
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To: balrog666
Did you ever get ALS out on a date?
1,506 posted on 05/29/2003 9:43:11 AM PDT by Dataman
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To: Gargantua
Oh Puhlease, I know far more about your young Christian religion then you do, that is why I AM NOT a christian.

So give up the convert status and make some sense, because your spiritual, hocus pocus is just that.

Genesis is a story, HELLO, it cannot be taken literally.

Go ahead and believe it, but it does not, and CANNOT compete with evolution.

Creationism=religion

evolution=science

Get a grip....

Science is NO threat to your religious beliefs, but the more you attack science with religion, the more ridiculous you sound.

It is obviously good enough for you, so go read your bible and leave the rest of us alone.

Geez, I really despise fanatics.
1,507 posted on 05/29/2003 9:45:13 AM PDT by Aric2000 (Are you on Grampa Dave's team? I am!! $5 a month is all it takes, come join!!!)
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To: Gargantua
Maybe you should just read my post again
  1. The fossil record isn't the only evidence we have.
  2. Even today, there are primitive multicellular organisms of all sorts of levels of complexity. Many of them lack what you consider essential systems. Some are degenerate (such as the tape-worm) but some, like the jellyfish, are genuine survivors of the transition to multicellularity, and do appear in the fossil record.

Several living animals with guts have only the most primitive neural nets - for example, hydra, jellyfish. All they need is to be able to intake and expel water. Sponges have no neural net at all, and their central cavity isn't really a gut. How hard is it to imagine that sponges developed a neural net to facilitate their filter feeding, that they began to also accumulate material in their gut and derive nutrition from it, and the gut evolved over time under that selective pressure?

I send my sincere condolences about all those "peer reviewed" papers you've wasted so much valuable time on. There nontheless remains hope for you for so long as you draw the Breath which God Breathed into you.

Why thank you. And may the Good Lord in turn grant you the grace to realize when you're about to be a patronizing and sanctimonious twit, and to resist that temptation.

1,508 posted on 05/29/2003 9:47:07 AM PDT by Right Wing Professor
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To: Right Wing Professor
"Oh, BTW, I'm currently writing my 75th peer reviewed scientific paper, to be submitted (optimistically) to Science."

And may the Good Lord in turn grant you the grace to realize when you're about to prance and preen yourself that all may bow to your glory, to resist that temptation.

1,509 posted on 05/29/2003 9:51:26 AM PDT by Gargantua (Embrace clarity.)
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To: gore3000
When the gene pool of a set of organisms becomes quite small, its dissappearance is quite likely.

Lets look at some more of the details of this argument: The existence of recessives&such is quite bit more dramatic a bit of evidence than most people at first realize. It is not just that a line of linear descent can have variations with each 4th offspring. Because large populations mix, the net heritage of a bisexual population doesn't have to be reflected in every member. There can be recessives&such that are totally unavailable in any particular mating, that could still eventually be recaptured by one's distant offspring, through judicious subsequent matings.

To appreciate more fully what is going on here, you have to divorce yourself from the linear tree of descent creationists are so fond of arguing about. A modern bisexual species is a gene corporation, no one member of which is a fully empowered representative of, with a broader survival mandate than any one member represents.

The existence of dog breeds is a sort of butterfly-pinned-to-the glass picture of this fluidity in bisexuals, made obvious by the application for a few thousand years by humans of various diverse pressures nature only generally applies one at a time.

1,510 posted on 05/29/2003 9:52:21 AM PDT by donh (/)
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To: Junior
What?! You're part of a sleeper cell?

(Sorry, but when in Rome...)

1,511 posted on 05/29/2003 9:52:36 AM PDT by inquest
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To: Dataman
Did you ever get ALS out on a date?

The only way you can get ALS on a date is if you go to a neurotoxin restaurant.

(Rimshot)

1,512 posted on 05/29/2003 9:52:41 AM PDT by Right Wing Professor
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To: Right Wing Professor
Wasting time on peer reviewed papers?

What is this, the middle ages?

Good grief, I for one thank you for your hard work and dedication, to show us your work and to add to the knowledge of the human race.

What a bunch of nutballs, yes, I am in a Pissy mood this morning, these fanatics are starting to get to me.

What a bunch of crazies.

The fear of death is an incredible thing to behold.
1,513 posted on 05/29/2003 9:54:55 AM PDT by Aric2000 (Are you on Grampa Dave's team? I am!! $5 a month is all it takes, come join!!!)
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To: Gargantua
...And that you in turn will realize that quoting someone out of context is bearing false witness, and violates His eighth commandment, or ninth if you're a prod., as I expect you are, since Catholics are warned against this sort of pious cant.

Now I'm all prayed out, and there's still a billion Muslims to be converted.

1,514 posted on 05/29/2003 9:56:54 AM PDT by Right Wing Professor
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To: Aric2000
"I know far more about your young Christian religion then you do... It is obviously good enough for you, so go read your bible and leave the rest of us alone."

Then you must know that my Bible insists that I not leave you alone, rather it demands that I spread the good news of Jesus Christ and God's eternal Truth. You really contradict yourself alot.

I have no problem with Science as a science. Many scientific breakthroughs have been very beneficial to Man as a whole as well as to me personally, and those I embrace.

It is when charlatans and their unwitting accomplices start preaching snot as Science that I take exception.

When they go another step further and try to imply that their snot-science somehow makes God's Truth a lie, then they deserve to know what they will harvest for their sowing of ignorance.

1,515 posted on 05/29/2003 10:00:50 AM PDT by Gargantua (Embrace clarity.)
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To: Right Wing Professor
"Now I'm all prayed out, and there's still a billion Muslims to be converted."

Gee, send them some peer review, that'll convert 'em. :-O

1,516 posted on 05/29/2003 10:02:56 AM PDT by Gargantua (Embrace clarity.)
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To: Gargantua
Wah, then let us go to hell in our own way.

Your naivete and arrogance gets old after a while.

No wonder the christians were persecuted, it was the only way to make them mind their own business.
1,517 posted on 05/29/2003 10:03:28 AM PDT by Aric2000 (Are you on Grampa Dave's team? I am!! $5 a month is all it takes, come join!!!)
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To: Aric2000
You think you're in a pissy mood NOW?

Just wait. You ain't seen pissy.

1,518 posted on 05/29/2003 10:04:20 AM PDT by Gargantua (Embrace clarity.)
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To: Gargantua
Then you must know that my Bible insists that I not leave you alone, rather it demands that I spread the good news of Jesus Christ and God's eternal Truth. You really contradict yourself alot.

The Bible says you are to preach the Good News. If the folks don't want to hear it you are to "shake the dust from your sandles" and move on. It never said anything about hanging around and being a nuisance.

1,519 posted on 05/29/2003 10:05:50 AM PDT by Junior (Computers make very fast, very accurate mistakes.)
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To: ALS
Congrats on winning the send an eloon on a wild goose chase award!

Congrats on producing an unequivical demonstration that you are proud to be a lying sack of goose excrement who only a fool would take at his word. You must be so proud.

1,520 posted on 05/29/2003 10:06:30 AM PDT by donh (/)
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