Posted on 03/04/2003 2:34:57 AM PST by sarcasm
OLYMPIA -- He prayed for the politicians, the state's prosperity and peace for all ethnicities and religions.
But when a Muslim cleric offered the opening prayer before the state House of Representatives yesterday, at least two lawmakers stepped off the chamber floor.
"It's an issue of patriotism," Rep. Lois McMahan, a conservative Republican from Gig Harbor, said of her decision to stand in the back of the room.
"The Islamic religion is so . . . part and parcel with the attack on America. I just didn't want to be there, be a part of that," she said. "Even though the mainstream Islamic religion doesn't profess to hate America, nonetheless it spawns the groups that hate America."
Rep. Cary Condotta, a Republican from East Wenatchee, also left the floor. He said the timing was not a coincidence, but he declined to comment further on why he left, except to say he was talking to another lawmaker and "let's just say I wasn't particularly interested."
A prayer is given at the beginning of each Senate and House session, and attendance is hit or miss, particularly on Mondays.
The interfaith organization Associated Ministries of Thurston County schedules the daily chaplain, said Cynthia Zehnder, clerk of the 98-member chamber. They have selected clerics representing a broad range of faiths, she said.
Imam Mohamad Joban, of the Islamic Center of Olympia, presented yesterday's brief opening prayer.
In part, he said: "We open this session of House of Representatives in the name of Allah the one God Abraham, God of Moses, God of Jesus, and God of Mohammed, peace be upon them all. . . . We ask Allah or God to bless the state of Washington so it may continue to prosper and become a symbol of peace and tranquility for people of all ethnic and religious backgrounds. We pray that Allah may guide this House in making good decisions for the people of Washington.
"At this time, we also pray that America may succeed in the war against terrorism. We pray to God that the war may end with world peace and tranquility."
Joban said the walkout was not hurtful, but ignorant.
"They're unable to distinguish between Islam as religion and way of life, and bad Muslims," said Joban, who has also given the opening prayer to the Senate. "They are easily able to distinguish between Christianity and bad Christians.
"They need to understand that like (President) Bush said . . . Islam is a peaceful religion."
Kathy Erlandson, director of Associated Ministries of Thurston County, found the small walkout disappointing, but not surprising.
"It makes me embarrassed to know that some of our legislators can't even treat someone with that common respect," she said. "He's an American citizen and he's praying for their work, then how can it be an act of patriotism to walk away?"
McMahan said she does not oppose having a Muslim cleric deliver the prayer.
Her departure was not a protest, but a personal decision not to participate because "the religion is the focal point of the hate-America sentiment in the world."
"My god is not Mohammed," McMahan added.
Joban said that if he were invited to give the opening prayer, he would do it again.
"Even if half of them leave it's OK for me," Joban said. "As a Muslim we have to respect what people believe and . . . we have to forgive something because of ignorance.
"The Holy Quran says that (one should) always respond to bad action with good and those who used to be enemies become friends."
If you want to tell me that the Framers of the Constitution were lacking in Logic then by all means do so. YOu are free to appear foolish. It is your right.
And the rest of your palaver is just the same, vacuous and aimless arguments I typically see put up as "chaff" when you don't really have an argument.
FACT: The PRINCIPLE of neutrality with respect to religion on the part of the Government is enshrined in the Constitution. The words are simple, but they address a profound philosophy.
The original English colonies even struggled with the concept. Religious tolerance was absent in most of them; Massachussetts was notorious as a hotbed of religiously based laws. Maryland was the "Catholic colony," etc.
Eventually, all that went by the board, and after a couple of hundred years, the concept of religious tolerance finally made it into the national consciousness.
Now, we are struggling to figure out how that works with other, non-Christian faiths.
One way it's NOT going to work, though, is to adopt the intolerance of the Muslim states which so many here seem to favor.
Like President Bush I heartily reject that.
That's not so hard for me, though it doesn't surprise me that YOU would find the concept foreign.
But note that in the Koran passage you have the added statement ...." Such has been the way of Allah....and you shall find no change in the ways of Allah."
The Koran itself says this is the immutable proper way to deal with non-Muslims. This obligation to murder extends (according to their scripture) to the present. That makes islam different (and more deadly).
I favor the inclusion of Islam, unlike people like you.
I consider mine to be the more enlightened of all the above views.
It makes my resolve stronger, PROVING I am right!
And in turn, I utterly reject the attempt at equivalence you're making. I am in agreement with our President, that religious tolerance is a fundamental basis of our society.
I hold to only one religious faith, period. But I will protect and defend the right of others to observe and practice their faith.
And if we are allowed to have religious expression in public life, as I, in complete disagreement with the ACLU, believe is right and proper, then I must acknowledge that a Muslim has that right as well just as I do.
In fact, one thing I have noticed is that the so-called "Muslim interest groups" like CAIR, who have been whining about "hate-crimes against Muslims," have produced NO evidence that this is so.
No, sad to say it is only a few bigots like yourself. Or maybe I should say "happy to say."
All that is asked is respect, the same respect that we Christians demand.
If we cannot give that respect, then we don't deserve it either.
FACT: The PRINCIPLE of neutrality with respect to religion
fC ---
Right vs wrong there is no neutrality !
If you were a doctor --- you would be a dirty needle ... QUACK ---
you define religion endlessly(( cancer // aids )) --- obliterate the Truth (( health // basics )) !
Even mix them --- poison // medicine !
Just askin': Have we considered sending ... Dr. Jack Kevorkian --- to Iraq to give Saddam Hussein an "annual checkup"?
Amen, Brother!
OK......
Acts 5:29
Peter and the other apostles replied: "We must obey God rather than men!
If you can't uphold the PRINCIPLES of the Constitution, then don't hypocritically stand for election.
As per your usual modus operandi, you never did answer my original question, which was:
Would it have been proper for a Shinto emporer worshipper to offer up a prayer in one of our legislatures to his god, the Emporer of Japan, during WWII, when American boys were spilling their blood all over the Pacific to put a stop to the aggressive and murderous expression of their 'faith'? Would it have been scandalous for a handful of indignant legislators to have vacated the premises?
Come down from your ivory tower to the real world the rest of us are living in these days, Illbay.
You refuse to face the fact that Islam is an all-encompassing ideology that includes the civil realm.
I, for one, could hardly care LESS if they 'respect' me or not!
I likewise careless whether OTHERS respect me for speaking my voice in the name of MY GOD!
Considering the world situation, I'll give Bush the benefit of the doubt until after the Islamo-fascist-warlocks have been wiped from the face of the earth.
Then may the phrase "religion of peace" never cross his lips again.
You really are living in a dream world.
In fact, one thing I have noticed is that the so-called "Muslim interest groups" like CAIR, who have been whining about "hate-crimes against Muslims," have produced NO evidence that this is so.
Your tactics are so predicable, but none the less despicable for their predicability.
No one here has advocated hate crimes against Muslims. Your sleazy attempt to make it so doesn't make it so.
No, sad to say it is only a few bigots like yourself. Or maybe I should say "happy to say."
Your name-calling is juvenile, and is a sign of the weakness of your arguments.
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