2 lawmakers spurn Muslim's prayer - Republicans step off House floor

Seattle Post-Intelligencer ^ | March 4, 2003 | ANGELA GALLOWAY

[sarcasm]

OLYMPIA -- He prayed for the politicians, the state's prosperity and peace for all ethnicities and religions.

But when a Muslim cleric offered the opening prayer before the state House of Representatives yesterday, at least two lawmakers stepped off the chamber floor.

"It's an issue of patriotism," Rep. Lois McMahan, a conservative Republican from Gig Harbor, said of her decision to stand in the back of the room.

"The Islamic religion is so . . . part and parcel with the attack on America. I just didn't want to be there, be a part of that," she said. "Even though the mainstream Islamic religion doesn't profess to hate America, nonetheless it spawns the groups that hate America."

Rep. Cary Condotta, a Republican from East Wenatchee, also left the floor. He said the timing was not a coincidence, but he declined to comment further on why he left, except to say he was talking to another lawmaker and "let's just say I wasn't particularly interested."

A prayer is given at the beginning of each Senate and House session, and attendance is hit or miss, particularly on Mondays.

The interfaith organization Associated Ministries of Thurston County schedules the daily chaplain, said Cynthia Zehnder, clerk of the 98-member chamber. They have selected clerics representing a broad range of faiths, she said.

Imam Mohamad Joban, of the Islamic Center of Olympia, presented yesterday's brief opening prayer.

In part, he said: "We open this session of House of Representatives in the name of Allah the one God Abraham, God of Moses, God of Jesus, and God of Mohammed, peace be upon them all. . . . We ask Allah or God to bless the state of Washington so it may continue to prosper and become a symbol of peace and tranquility for people of all ethnic and religious backgrounds. We pray that Allah may guide this House in making good decisions for the people of Washington.

"At this time, we also pray that America may succeed in the war against terrorism. We pray to God that the war may end with world peace and tranquility."

Joban said the walkout was not hurtful, but ignorant.

"They're unable to distinguish between Islam as religion and way of life, and bad Muslims," said Joban, who has also given the opening prayer to the Senate. "They are easily able to distinguish between Christianity and bad Christians.

"They need to understand that like (President) Bush said . . . Islam is a peaceful religion."

Kathy Erlandson, director of Associated Ministries of Thurston County, found the small walkout disappointing, but not surprising.

"It makes me embarrassed to know that some of our legislators can't even treat someone with that common respect," she said. "He's an American citizen and he's praying for their work, then how can it be an act of patriotism to walk away?"

McMahan said she does not oppose having a Muslim cleric deliver the prayer.

Her departure was not a protest, but a personal decision not to participate because "the religion is the focal point of the hate-America sentiment in the world."

"My god is not Mohammed," McMahan added.

Joban said that if he were invited to give the opening prayer, he would do it again.

"Even if half of them leave it's OK for me," Joban said. "As a Muslim we have to respect what people believe and . . . we have to forgive something because of ignorance.

"The Holy Quran says that (one should) always respond to bad action with good and those who used to be enemies become friends."

[EternalVigilance]

The enemy in World War II was a government, not a religion.

The enemy right now is a terrorist movement, not a religion.

That's what the idiots on FR don't seem to get, and never have.

Or perhaps it is you who is blind to the real danger; and to the source of the terrorists actions.

[k2blader]

So, might Daniel and his buddies just as well have avoided that whole ugly episode in the fiery furnace?

Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego were thrown into the fire for not worshipping the gods of King Nebuchadnezzar.

Are you trying to say that remaining on the floor during the Imam's prayer is equivalent to worshipping his god?

[Illbay]

What you really mean is that you reject the notion that anyone who believes differently than you might in good faith worship God.

Religious bigotry. It's not just for "jihadists" any more.

[Pompah]

it was embarrassing to Republicans everywhere.
HorsePuckey.! It didn't,and wouldn't have embarrassed this Republican. In light of the fact that the WTC towers were taken down "in the name of allah." I think what she did was more than appropriate.

The TV shows me pictures of members of the Nation of Islam marching in the streets of America in support of their religion. Not in support of this Country.
I think YOU'RE Wrong.

[brownie]

Ahh, I'm a simpleton. That is the difference between liberals and conservatives. You are absolutely incorrect that the constitution does not embody rules. You make the "principles" argument so that you can attempt to change the meaning of the constitution to fit your agenda. (and, before you call me dumb or ignorant, I have, in fact, studied law, at a top 10 law school, and currently practice law, so have some familiarity with the subject). I would say, that if the constitution is not rules, how is it the "highest law of the land"? If it is not rules, why is a very difficult to pass amendment needed to change it? By the same tolken, is the U.S. Code simply "principles"? Why not? What's the difference?

The RULE is that people have freedom to practice the religion of their choice PERIOD (obviously subject to reasonable health and safety rules, see Santoria). (I guess if you use all caps, it means the point is more correct). There is no PRINCIPAL or RULE in the constitution that says ANYONE must listen to or particpate in someone else's religion. Thus, legistlators do not have to sit quietly and bow their heads for a prayer in a religion they do not believe in. In fact, I believe that simply getting up and leaving before the prayer was perfectly appropriate, rather than trying to shout it down or some other leftist technique.

I see PEOPLE LIKE YOU as unable to actually understand what the constitution is or what it actually says.

[EternalVigilance]

Well said.

[EternalVigilance]

Amen!

[Illbay]

Could've fooled me. "Shariah law" is that which allows no other religious viewpoints. CIVIL law under which we live, recognizes that government is neutral with respect to religion.

Sorry, really bad example you gave here.

[brownie]

Again, re-read the article. If I'm not mistaken, no religious expression was squelched. Some legislators simply choose not to participate. You really cannot see the difference between freedom of each individual to do something (speech, religion) and NO REQUIREMENT that other individuals be subjected to it.

Just because someone did not listen to the prayer, does not mean that the religion has been squelched. Making that argument from the facts in this instance is absurd. Now, if the legislators had taken the cleric out and had her shot, you would have an argument (as would likely be done in each and every islamic country if a christian attempted to offer a prayer in public).

If I got up at a gathering of muslims, and offered a prayer to Jesus, how many do you think would respectfully bow their heads and listen? I do not have any right to force them to listen to me, and neither did this cleric, regardless of the forum.

[newgeezer]

So YOUR point is that we need to be MORE like Iraq or Saudi Arabia, right?

If you take into consideration everything I wrote to you in this thread, you could not logically arrive at such a conclusion.

[LiteKeeper]

bump

[EternalVigilance]

CIVIL law under which we live, recognizes that government is neutral with respect to religion.

And yet you, in the name of political correctness, demand the resignation of two fine Republican legislators for exercising their freedom of conscience.

What is wrong with this picture?

[Illbay]

Or perhaps it is you who is blind to the real danger; and to the source of the terrorists actions.

Before the coverage of the capture of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, I was convinced that most of the "jihadists" were religious extremists puttin forth a perverted form of their own religion.

Now, I'm convinced more than ever that their so-called "religious war" is a total sham, a fabrication.

KSM was NEVER religious, never attended religious sermons, etc. He was simply a Marxist revolutionary, and never let the trappings of religion get in his way.

The religion angle is just an opiate for the masses, the idiots who are willing to do the actual dying. They are dupes of the cynical puppetmasters whom they serve.

[Calpernia]

I didn't give an example. I said our representatives represent Civil Law, not Shariah. Try again.

[skeeter]

Hm. I always thought THEY were the bigots and WE were the enlightened ones.

How clever of you to turn the tables.

Actually, I would never refuse a person the right of non participation in praying to the God of the bible care of his son, Jesus Christ.

Who happens to be the one and only true God.

[dennisw]

Who is the is person who despises me? The poster? Many Christians say their G_d is the same as mine so what do I care? Franklin Graham, Jerry Falwell are representative of such Christians and they have Islam's number. They are also supportive of Israel.

[Illbay]

It didn't,and wouldn't have embarrassed this Republican.

By my count, there are 46 Republican state legislators in the state of Washington. My guess is that 44 of them WERE embarrassed by the actions of these block-heads who walked out.

Do NOT be surprised if they are not disciplined by their party leadership in some way. If so, it might indicate to you that yours is most definitely the minority view.

[EternalVigilance]

He was simply a Marxist revolutionary, and never let the trappings of religion get in his way. The religion angle is just an opiate for the masses, the idiots who are willing to do the actual dying. They are dupes of the cynical puppetmasters whom they serve.

So, you are saying that the root of our little problem with radical Islamists is not Islam, but Marxists?

That is a pretty ridiculous assertion, but even if it was true, it would still be a struggle against an evil ideology with a religious worldview as its source.

Try harder.

[f.Christian]

Main Entry: psy·chop·a·thy
Pronunciation: sI-'kä-p&-thE
Function: noun
Etymology: International Scientific Vocabulary
Date: 1847
: mental disorder; especially : extreme mental disorder marked usually by egocentric and antisocial activity

[newgeezer]

Are you trying to say that remaining on the floor during the Imam's prayer is equivalent to worshipping his god?

The point to which I responded said one could stay on the floor during the prayer. "God knows their hearts," or something to that effect.

If that's really all there is to it -- God knows their hearts -- Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego might just as well have faked worshipping Nebuchadnezzar's idol and avoided that potentially awful furnace episode. To the casual observer, they would have looked like they were worshipping Nebuchadnezzar's idol. But, God would have known they were just faking it. He knows their hearts. After all, they should have respected and tolerated their host and his religion.