2 lawmakers spurn Muslim's prayer - Republicans step off House floor

Seattle Post-Intelligencer ^ | March 4, 2003 | ANGELA GALLOWAY

[sarcasm]

OLYMPIA -- He prayed for the politicians, the state's prosperity and peace for all ethnicities and religions.

But when a Muslim cleric offered the opening prayer before the state House of Representatives yesterday, at least two lawmakers stepped off the chamber floor.

"It's an issue of patriotism," Rep. Lois McMahan, a conservative Republican from Gig Harbor, said of her decision to stand in the back of the room.

"The Islamic religion is so . . . part and parcel with the attack on America. I just didn't want to be there, be a part of that," she said. "Even though the mainstream Islamic religion doesn't profess to hate America, nonetheless it spawns the groups that hate America."

Rep. Cary Condotta, a Republican from East Wenatchee, also left the floor. He said the timing was not a coincidence, but he declined to comment further on why he left, except to say he was talking to another lawmaker and "let's just say I wasn't particularly interested."

A prayer is given at the beginning of each Senate and House session, and attendance is hit or miss, particularly on Mondays.

The interfaith organization Associated Ministries of Thurston County schedules the daily chaplain, said Cynthia Zehnder, clerk of the 98-member chamber. They have selected clerics representing a broad range of faiths, she said.

Imam Mohamad Joban, of the Islamic Center of Olympia, presented yesterday's brief opening prayer.

In part, he said: "We open this session of House of Representatives in the name of Allah the one God Abraham, God of Moses, God of Jesus, and God of Mohammed, peace be upon them all. . . . We ask Allah or God to bless the state of Washington so it may continue to prosper and become a symbol of peace and tranquility for people of all ethnic and religious backgrounds. We pray that Allah may guide this House in making good decisions for the people of Washington.

"At this time, we also pray that America may succeed in the war against terrorism. We pray to God that the war may end with world peace and tranquility."

Joban said the walkout was not hurtful, but ignorant.

"They're unable to distinguish between Islam as religion and way of life, and bad Muslims," said Joban, who has also given the opening prayer to the Senate. "They are easily able to distinguish between Christianity and bad Christians.

"They need to understand that like (President) Bush said . . . Islam is a peaceful religion."

Kathy Erlandson, director of Associated Ministries of Thurston County, found the small walkout disappointing, but not surprising.

"It makes me embarrassed to know that some of our legislators can't even treat someone with that common respect," she said. "He's an American citizen and he's praying for their work, then how can it be an act of patriotism to walk away?"

McMahan said she does not oppose having a Muslim cleric deliver the prayer.

Her departure was not a protest, but a personal decision not to participate because "the religion is the focal point of the hate-America sentiment in the world."

"My god is not Mohammed," McMahan added.

Joban said that if he were invited to give the opening prayer, he would do it again.

"Even if half of them leave it's OK for me," Joban said. "As a Muslim we have to respect what people believe and . . . we have to forgive something because of ignorance.

"The Holy Quran says that (one should) always respond to bad action with good and those who used to be enemies become friends."

[newgeezer]

I see nothing wrong with choosing to step off *or* remain on the floor. God knows our hearts.

Interesting. So, might Daniel and his buddies just as well have avoided that whole ugly episode in the fiery furnace?

:-)

[nmh]

"Why didn't he say this instead: "We open this session of House of Representatives in the name of God the one God Abraham, God of Moses, God of Jesus, and God of Mohammed, peace be upon them all. . . . We ask God to bless the state of Washington so it may continue to prosper and become a symbol of peace and tranquility for people of all ethnic and religious backgrounds. We pray that God may guide this House in making good decisions for the people of Washington. "

Some of us aren't as confused as you and know that the god of Mohammed in NOT the same as the Judeo Christian God, hence it would be AGAINST the Judeo Christian God to honor a false god through worship or otherwise.

[nmh]

"The First Commandment: "Thou shalt have no other gods." That's a COMMAND, not a suggestion, from the Triune God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. No Christian should have stayed in his seat during the prayer to a false god. One of these days, when the persecutions begin here in this country as they are now occuring in Muslim countries abroad, we will see who the real Christians are. It shouldn't surprise us since it's been going on intermittantly for two millennia, and it will soon be our turn."

Thank you. You have said it best.

[Illbay]

He certainly has every right to do just that.

You continue to confuse the RIGHT to do something with the RIGHTNESS of doing it.

It isn't against the law to act as these people did, but their action should NOT be without consequence either.

And for the record, I'd consider a Jewish legislator who showed his offense at the utterance of the name of Jesus Christ by walking out, to be a boor as well.

[Illbay]

Funny, it seems you're the only one who took offense.

I'm not offended, but as a Republican voter I'm certainly embarrassed.

By your reasoning, no one with the courage of their own convictions should hold public office, because they might offend someone.

Well, by YOUR logic we ought to applaud a MUSLIM legislator who stands up and rails against Christianity and Judaism and calls for their destruction. After all, he's just showing the "courage of his convictions," right?

[Illbay]

The enemy in World War II was a government, not a religion.

The enemy right now is a terrorist movement, not a religion.

That's what the idiots on FR don't seem to get, and never have.

[joesnuffy]

I agree..btw good answer...

[nmh]

"But when you are an elected official you have responsibilities, and they don't include pandering to your own bigotry."with

This has nothing to do with "pandering to bigotry". It has everything to do with being faithful to the Judeo Christian God. He REQUIRES your undivided attention and service to the best of your ability. To honor this false god only angers the Judeo Christian God and rightfully so.

BTW, name an instance in the Bible where Jesus Christ paid homage to a false god. He didn't and he doesn't expect or want Christians to either.

[Illbay]

...the constitution does not mandate that anyone sit and listen respectfully to a prayer.

Don't be a simpleton. The Constitution embodies PRINCIPLES, not rules.

The PRINCIPLE is that of neutrality with respect to religion. I object to the attempts by the ACLU to squelch the expression of the religion of Christianity because it offends them.

I object to the bigots on this thread to squelch the expression of the religion of Islam bercause it "offends" them.

I see people like you as EXACTLY THE SAME as the ACLU bigots.

[nmh]

"What they did was wrong, and it was embarrassing to Republicans everywhere."

If the truth be known ... this is true of you assuming you are a Republican. Clearly you are not a Christian.

[Illbay]

Is it also bigoted when liberals do the same type of actions toward christians?

Ab-So-Lutely.

And I'd better not catch any of the bigots on this thread registering their objection when the ACLU tries to squelch religious expression, or I'm going to remind them of their hypocrisy.

[newgeezer]

So, after my points in #145, you still don't think the Muslims got no respect, and should be offended?

[Calpernia]

You are right Illbay. Since the sermon was disrespectfully missed, I will fix it now. I will email them few sermons to make up for it.

Shaykh Abd-al-Rahman al-Sudays delivers the sermon. ...

Concluding, he prays to God: "O God, give power to Islam and
Muslims, humiliate infidelity and infidels, destroy Islam's enemies, and protect the Islamic countries." He goes on: "O God, support our mujahidin bothers in Palestine, Kashmir, and Chechnya and destroy the aggressor Jews and the tyrannical Zionists, for they are within your power."

Shaykh Akram Abd-al-Razzaq al-Ruqayhi delivers the sermon...

Turning to politics, the imam says: "The sons of monkeys and the
grandsons of pigs are committing aggression against the Palestinian people.
...

Concluding, the imam prays to God: "O God, support those supporting Islam. O God, support the mujahidin in Palestine and elsewhere. O God, help them score victory over their enemy. O God, destroy the Zionist aggressors and the unjust Americans and their supporters."


Saykh Yusuf al-Qaradawi delivers the sermon. ...

The imam then urges Qataris to abide by the law issued by the State of
Qatar banning smoking at public places, schools, universities, and
elsewhere. He also calls on Muslims to send the price they pay for
cigarettes to the Palestinians and "to boycott Zionist and US goods,"
because "the battle is becoming fiercer."
...
Concluding, the imam prays to God: "O God, give us victory over your enemies, the enemies of Islam. O God, protect us from their evils, weaken them, wipe them out, destroy their power, and prevent them from committing aggression against your servants. O God, destroy the aggressor, treacherous Jews. O God, destroy the aggressor Americans. O God,
destroy the fanatic pagans. O God, destroy the tyrannical Crusaders."


Shaykh Abd-al-Razzaq al-Sa'di delivers the sermon...

Concluding, the imam prays to God: "O God, support Islam and
Muslims, elevate justice and Islam, help believers score victory over infidels, and protect our country. O God, give victory to your mujahidin servants in Iraq and Palestine." He goes on: "O God, destroy the Americans and Zionists. O God, hang their flags at half-mast. O God, weaken them. O God, shake the ground under them. O God, give success
to mujahid leader President Saddam Husayn."


Shaykh Ijlin mosque

He praises God, the messenger, and his companions, saying that Almighty God "warns us of the Jews and their characters." He also says God protected the prophet "from Jews' cunning, treachery, and ideological terrorism." The imam then congratulates those "who have won the confidence of the Palestinian Legislative Council and the brother president," hoping that they will succeed in serving the people and the country. He says that the Koran and the prophet's tradition brand the Jews "with arrogance, rampaging, treachery, and deception," accusing them of "killing people, shedding blood, and triggering wars" on the blessed land of Palestine. Therefore, he says, God "transformed them into monkeys and pigs," stressing that God will punish them and urging Muslims to close ranks and abide by the Islamic law.

Only then, he says, will God stand by us, have mercy on us, and grant us success and victory.

Concluding, the imam prays to God: "O God, give us victory over our enemies and have mercy on our martyrs. O God, destroy the hypocrite agents. O God, destroy them. O God, give us victory over the Jews and their supporters."

[HadEnough]

Here is the letters that I sent to patriots Condotta and McMahon.

Dear Representatives Condotta and McMahon; I want to thank you from my heart for your support of this great nation in this time of war with Islamism. We are indeed in a religious war with Islam. Osama Bin Laden may be called a 'radical', however he practices 'pure islam' which demands submission to the false god Allah under threat of death.The 'moderate' Muslims may claim to disagree with Bin Laden and the Saudi Wahabis, but THEY know what Mohammed has commanded ALL Muslims to do. It is very, very refreshing for me to read about an elected official who does kneel at the altar of Politically Correct 'diversity'. Diversity is NOT a strength, UNITY as Americans is our STRENGTH! Though I do not live in your districts, I would like to contribute to your next campaign, so please put me on your mailing list. The true and living God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob bless you and keep you safe until Jesus returns. Sincerely, HadEnough of these Islamic Lies

[Illbay]

It's a matter of degree...

"It's a matter of degree?!?!?"

So you're saying, that gunning down an abortion doctor is "okay" because it's only one person, whereas flying a jet into a building is NOT okay, because it's THREE THOUSAND PEOPLE?

Or are you REALLY saying, that it's okay for YOU to kill in accordance with YOUR beliefs, but it's NOT okay for one who believes differently than you to kill for theirs, right?

That's what I believe you're saying at any rate.

[EternalVigilance]

You haven't addressed my point in #207.

Would it have been right for American legislators to allow a prayer to the Emporer by Japanese Shintoists to be uttered in one of our legislatures in 1944, while their sons were spilling their blood all over the Pacific to stop that cult?

Your 'position' is the latest example of foolish political correctness run amock...to the destruction of our nation.

Islam is an ideology every bit as much as it is a 'religion'...and it is in every way an ideology that is hostile and utterly incompatible with our form of government and our civilisation.

Islam should be as 'acceptable' as fascism/nazism in our country...in other words, not acceptable at all.

[Illbay]

You know, what I'm afraid of is, it's going to come to exactly this. And then we will not have the blessings of God invoked upon our nation at times like this, and we'll be all the worse for it.

Oh, and before anyone asks: Yes, I do believe that God listens to the prayers of a Muslim, when they are uttered in good faith, just as He does a Christian, a Jew, or anyone else.

That is because we are ALL His children, and He loves ALL of us despite our errors.

[Illbay]

So YOUR point is that we need to be MORE like Iraq or Saudi Arabia, right?

[Calpernia]

>>>. THey have a responsibility to act accordingly in their office.

They represent CIVIL LAW. Not Shariah Law ;)

[Illbay]

My G_d is the same as yours even though Jesus is not the Jewish messiah. If your belief is different, then so be it.

Well, dennisw, what do you think when you are told (as you may well be on this thread) that your God is NOT "our God"? How does THAT feel, to be told by someone who despises you, what you believe?