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Evolution Disclaimer Supported
The Advocate (Baton Rouge) ^ | 12/11/02 | WILL SENTELL

Posted on 12/11/2002 6:28:08 AM PST by A2J

By WILL SENTELL

wsentell@theadvocate.com

Capitol news bureau

High school biology textbooks would include a disclaimer that evolution is only a theory under a change approved Tuesday by a committee of the state's top school board.

If the disclaimer wins final approval, it would apparently make Louisiana just the second state in the nation with such a provision. The other is Alabama, which is the model for the disclaimer backers want in Louisiana.

Alabama approved its policy six or seven years ago after extensive controversy that included questions over the religious overtones of the issue.

The change approved Tuesday requires Louisiana education officials to check on details for getting publishers to add the disclaimer to biology textbooks.

It won approval in the board's Student and School Standards/ Instruction Committee after a sometimes contentious session.

"I don't believe I evolved from some primate," said Jim Stafford, a board member from Monroe. Stafford said evolution should be offered as a theory, not fact.

Whether the proposal will win approval by the full state Board of Elementary and Secondary Education on Thursday is unclear.

Paul Pastorek of New Orleans, president of the board, said he will oppose the addition.

"I am not prepared to go back to the Dark Ages," Pastorek said.

"I don't think state boards should dictate editorial content of school textbooks," he said. "We shouldn't be involved with that."

Donna Contois of Metairie, chairwoman of the committee that approved the change, said afterward she could not say whether it will win approval by the full board.

The disclaimer under consideration says the theory of evolution "still leaves many unanswered questions about the origin of life.

"Study hard and keep an open mind," it says. "Someday you may contribute to the theories of how living things appeared on earth."

Backers say the addition would be inserted in the front of biology textbooks used by students in grades 9-12, possibly next fall.

The issue surfaced when a committee of the board prepared to approve dozens of textbooks used by both public and nonpublic schools. The list was recommended by a separate panel that reviews textbooks every seven years.

A handful of citizens, one armed with a copy of Charles Darwin's "Origin of the Species," complained that biology textbooks used now are one-sided in promoting evolution uncritically and are riddled with factual errors.

"If we give them all the facts to make up their mind, we have educated them," Darrell White of Baton Rouge said of students. "Otherwise we have indoctrinated them."

Darwin wrote that individuals with certain characteristics enjoy an edge over their peers and life forms developed gradually millions of years ago.

Backers bristled at suggestions that they favor the teaching of creationism, which says that life began about 6,000 years ago in a process described in the Bible's Book of Genesis.

White said he is the father of seven children, including a 10th-grader at a public high school in Baton Rouge.

He said he reviewed 21 science textbooks for use by middle and high school students. White called Darwin's book "racist and sexist" and said students are entitled to know more about controversy that swirls around the theory.

"If nothing else, put a disclaimer in the front of the textbooks," White said.

John Oller Jr., a professor at the University of Louisiana-Lafayette, also criticized the accuracy of science textbooks under review. Oller said he was appearing on behalf of the Louisiana Family Forum, a Christian lobbying group.

Oller said the state should force publishers to offer alternatives, correct mistakes in textbooks and fill in gaps in science teachings. "We are talking about major falsehoods that should be addressed," he said.

Linda Johnson of Plaquemine, a member of the board, said she supports the change. Johnson said the new message of evolution "will encourage students to go after the facts."


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: crevolist; evolution; rades
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To: forsnax5; longshadow; PatrickHenry
Piltdownpig.

Ah yes, another incarnation I laughed myself silly over.

2,801 posted on 01/04/2003 1:37:18 PM PST by Aracelis
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To: BMCDA
I am the un-meanest guy you could ever meet...I am just a lone seeker of the truth, where ever it leads.
2,802 posted on 01/04/2003 1:37:34 PM PST by Pharmboy
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To: All
Since way back in post 1081, g3k has been asked: HOW OLD IS THE EARTH?. Still no answer, except for dodges, evasions, excuses, and attempts to provoke a flame war (and thus an excuse to have the thread pulled).

It can't be very difficult for someone who has surveyed all Nobel Prize winning work and has declared that it all disproves evolution. An intellect of such sweeping power should be able to give us his answer. HOW OLD IS THE EARTH?.

2,803 posted on 01/04/2003 1:38:05 PM PST by PatrickHenry
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To: Pharmboy
Isn't that so soviet of you...gulagmasters!
2,804 posted on 01/04/2003 1:38:50 PM PST by f.Christian
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To: Condorman
"Do you equate 'by accident' with 'undirected'?

I think that is a decent way to put it, although there are some minor differences WRT language. If we could start with "undirected" or "directed" as the two possibilities for existence as we know it we might be able to reason through some things coherently.

What concerns me, however, is that we may be missing some other logical possibility. True enough, one could say existence involves a combination of both directed and undirected phenomena, but as soon one mixes the two, in my opinion, its like donh brought up about being "almost pregnant." A better way to to say it: "a little bit pregnant." That's why I said to a fellow poster a little while back, the distinction between religion and science is is a good thing. But it must be, and can be, applied only to a certain extent.

I sense we will be able to reason through this together and be in agreement through several steps, and then part ways when the leap of faith must be made that a Personal Director is behind the scenes, whether involved or not.

If I am allowed in this the forum to do so, and if we can maintain cool heads, I think I can present a fairly reasonable argument - not PROOF! - that a Personal Director not only brought current existence into being, but is also constantly, actively involved with it.

If one wishes to go further into WHO that Personal Director is, then I must join with the evolutionists in saying it need not, indeed SHOULD not be addressed in the classroom. That's when the line has been crossed into an improper admixture of science and religion.

Are you with me?

2,805 posted on 01/04/2003 1:40:13 PM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: Pharmboy
preanswer---rhetorical questions don't need answers...

God is the Great Physician Creator Father Scientist Doctor...

and all that follow him---

even somewhat those who do so inadvertently!

Main Entry: in·ad·ver·tent
Pronunciation: -t&nt
Function: adjective
Etymology: back-formation from inadvertence
Date: 1653
1 : not focusing the mind on a matter : INATTENTIVE
2 : UNINTENTIONAL
- in·ad·ver·tent·ly adverb
2,806 posted on 01/04/2003 1:47:22 PM PST by f.Christian
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To: Pharmboy
I didn't want to insinuate you were mean, but asking f.Christian to imagine he were sick...
2,807 posted on 01/04/2003 1:47:42 PM PST by BMCDA
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To: f.Christian
If there were EVER an un-rhetorical (i.e., fact-based) question, mine was it...accusing me of being a communist...fletcher...I am losing any respect I had for you...tch tch...dreadful default my friend...and you STILL refuse to answer my SIMPLE question...as they say, "...as funny as a Christian Scientist with an appendicitis."
2,808 posted on 01/04/2003 1:54:11 PM PST by Pharmboy
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To: BMCDA
... but asking f.Christian to imagine he were sick...

We are all praying that f.Christian receives the best of care. But I wish they'd cut down on his "internet therapy" time, as it doesn't seem to be working very well for him.

2,809 posted on 01/04/2003 1:54:24 PM PST by PatrickHenry
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To: Fester Chugabrew
ROFLMAO!!

Whatever, you sound like a typical crackpot Creationist, who is clueless to anything that I was saying.

Whatever Fester, you're a joke, just as G3K is, I will choose to ignore you as well as the other 3 or 4 other fruitcakes that get on these threads.

Religion is NOT science, and as long as you continue to spout, godidit everywhere and call it science, then you will be considered a joke, just as you should be.

ID and creationism are not science, and if someone claims they are, then they are just a crackpot claiming something that they are clueless about.

And there are physical laws to the universe, and we have evolved within them. You may claim that it was designed, but that theory is religious in nature and is NOT taken seriously in science. That is religions purview.

You are a crackpot, just as much as G3K and FC are, and you shall be treated by me as such.

Your thought processes cannot seem to separate between religion and science. Therefore logic escapes you, therefore debating with one such as yourself is a waste of breath.

I will no longer waste my time nor energy on one such as you.
2,810 posted on 01/04/2003 1:57:31 PM PST by Aric2000
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To: BMCDA
I was just funnin'...I know you are on the side of reality...whoops there goes gravity (eminem)
2,811 posted on 01/04/2003 1:57:43 PM PST by Pharmboy
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To: Pharmboy
reprise...guess who?

To: f.Christian

Sorry this took awhile to respond too christmas functions drew my attention. What do I base my life on? What am I required to base it on? My life doesn't need a base outside of myself to be fullfilled. Even if i didn't base my life on rational thought I would still not need a basis to be complete. You seem to need the support of a mythology to help you overcome life's problems I do not. Your life may not be complete without a savior to fill you with hope. I need no false hope I am complete unto myself. Even if every man woman and child on this earth believed in Christ I would have no need. I do not need the consensus of the community.

I search for rational truth because that is where reality resides. Truth is not subjective, truth is not objective, and Truth is not subject to the varied Mythologies of this Planet many of these mythologies being much older than the one you embrace. Truth is absolute. That is why in the search for an absolute truth you must often throw off the weak beliefs of degenrate religion or even the hard won beliefs gained from personal insight. Truth cares for none of that.

God is not truth God is a crutch for those to weak to cut away the dead limbs, shoot the sick dog, or take that first unaided step into the light of reason.


47 posted on 12/22/2002 3:46 PM PST by Sentis
2,812 posted on 01/04/2003 1:58:40 PM PST by f.Christian
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To: f.Christian
ANSWER THE QUESTION...otherwise, you're a PHONY.
2,813 posted on 01/04/2003 1:59:33 PM PST by Pharmboy
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To: f.Christian
Sentis is correct.
2,814 posted on 01/04/2003 2:01:27 PM PST by Pharmboy
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To: Pharmboy
Your phony insulting question doesn't deserve an answer!
2,815 posted on 01/04/2003 2:02:28 PM PST by f.Christian
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To: Pharmboy
Do you think sentis is frontpage fr...pharmboy?
2,816 posted on 01/04/2003 2:03:57 PM PST by f.Christian
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To: Pharmboy
put in in your bio...headliner!
2,817 posted on 01/04/2003 2:04:51 PM PST by f.Christian
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To: Fester Chugabrew
You are indeed a fruitcake.

If I am allowed in this the forum to do so, and if we can maintain cool heads, I think I can present a fairly reasonable argument - not PROOF! - that a Personal Director not only brought current existence into being, but is also constantly, actively involved with it.

If one wishes to go further into WHO that Personal Director is, then I must join with the evolutionists in saying it need not, indeed SHOULD not be addressed in the classroom. That's when the line has been crossed into an improper admixture of science and religion.

Are you with me?


Give me a break, a personal director as you say is none other then god. The teaching of ID is religious in nature and therefore should NOT be taught in science class PERIOD. Science is facts, NOT faith.

I am most definitely NOT with you, I think that you are trying to sneak god in a back door into the science curriculum and I will not put up with such intellectual dishonesty.

Religion has NO place in science, religion is faith, science is facts.

Don't like it? start your own school for crackpots.
2,818 posted on 01/04/2003 2:06:53 PM PST by Aric2000
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To: f.Christian
Wha? Is Patrick correct? Is this internet therapy time at the state psycho ward?

I asked you a simple question: are you willing to put your health and that of your family's into "God's hands" or do you use ANY part of modern biology for your own good? You are a phony if you won't answer that question...changing the subject does not help your "argument"

2,819 posted on 01/04/2003 2:09:42 PM PST by Pharmboy
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To: Pharmboy
Life is a three way bulb...low...medium---low/medium(high)---you are on dim/out!
2,820 posted on 01/04/2003 2:11:51 PM PST by f.Christian
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