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Evolution Disclaimer Supported
The Advocate (Baton Rouge) ^ | 12/11/02 | WILL SENTELL

Posted on 12/11/2002 6:28:08 AM PST by A2J

By WILL SENTELL

wsentell@theadvocate.com

Capitol news bureau

High school biology textbooks would include a disclaimer that evolution is only a theory under a change approved Tuesday by a committee of the state's top school board.

If the disclaimer wins final approval, it would apparently make Louisiana just the second state in the nation with such a provision. The other is Alabama, which is the model for the disclaimer backers want in Louisiana.

Alabama approved its policy six or seven years ago after extensive controversy that included questions over the religious overtones of the issue.

The change approved Tuesday requires Louisiana education officials to check on details for getting publishers to add the disclaimer to biology textbooks.

It won approval in the board's Student and School Standards/ Instruction Committee after a sometimes contentious session.

"I don't believe I evolved from some primate," said Jim Stafford, a board member from Monroe. Stafford said evolution should be offered as a theory, not fact.

Whether the proposal will win approval by the full state Board of Elementary and Secondary Education on Thursday is unclear.

Paul Pastorek of New Orleans, president of the board, said he will oppose the addition.

"I am not prepared to go back to the Dark Ages," Pastorek said.

"I don't think state boards should dictate editorial content of school textbooks," he said. "We shouldn't be involved with that."

Donna Contois of Metairie, chairwoman of the committee that approved the change, said afterward she could not say whether it will win approval by the full board.

The disclaimer under consideration says the theory of evolution "still leaves many unanswered questions about the origin of life.

"Study hard and keep an open mind," it says. "Someday you may contribute to the theories of how living things appeared on earth."

Backers say the addition would be inserted in the front of biology textbooks used by students in grades 9-12, possibly next fall.

The issue surfaced when a committee of the board prepared to approve dozens of textbooks used by both public and nonpublic schools. The list was recommended by a separate panel that reviews textbooks every seven years.

A handful of citizens, one armed with a copy of Charles Darwin's "Origin of the Species," complained that biology textbooks used now are one-sided in promoting evolution uncritically and are riddled with factual errors.

"If we give them all the facts to make up their mind, we have educated them," Darrell White of Baton Rouge said of students. "Otherwise we have indoctrinated them."

Darwin wrote that individuals with certain characteristics enjoy an edge over their peers and life forms developed gradually millions of years ago.

Backers bristled at suggestions that they favor the teaching of creationism, which says that life began about 6,000 years ago in a process described in the Bible's Book of Genesis.

White said he is the father of seven children, including a 10th-grader at a public high school in Baton Rouge.

He said he reviewed 21 science textbooks for use by middle and high school students. White called Darwin's book "racist and sexist" and said students are entitled to know more about controversy that swirls around the theory.

"If nothing else, put a disclaimer in the front of the textbooks," White said.

John Oller Jr., a professor at the University of Louisiana-Lafayette, also criticized the accuracy of science textbooks under review. Oller said he was appearing on behalf of the Louisiana Family Forum, a Christian lobbying group.

Oller said the state should force publishers to offer alternatives, correct mistakes in textbooks and fill in gaps in science teachings. "We are talking about major falsehoods that should be addressed," he said.

Linda Johnson of Plaquemine, a member of the board, said she supports the change. Johnson said the new message of evolution "will encourage students to go after the facts."


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: crevolist; evolution; rades
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To: Fester Chugabrew
I can well imagine creationists making genuine scientitific discoveries but having them ridiculed and discarded via evolutionist "inquisitions" in certain universities.

Ridicule does occur in science, but it never influences genuine progress for long. Even Einstein, with all his clout, could not stop quantum theory.

Besides, there is all kinds of money available to ID and creation research. Can you outline a program of research that would satisfy creationists? I guarantee that any promising research program would find massive funding. So where would you start?

2,521 posted on 01/03/2003 12:16:37 PM PST by js1138
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To: Tribune7
Yes.
2,522 posted on 01/03/2003 12:17:41 PM PST by Junior
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To: nanrod
Dear God, Ted, are you angling to be banned again?
2,523 posted on 01/03/2003 12:20:27 PM PST by Junior
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To: Junior
Why do you believe rights to be inherent?
2,524 posted on 01/03/2003 12:21:16 PM PST by Tribune7
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To: Fester Chugabrew
Does intelligence necessarily carry the baggage of "God." I don't think one is forced to go there logically...

So tell us a plausible story about the intelligent design of life that does not include God. Just give us a hypothesis, not necessarily one you believe in, just one that makes lokical sense.

2,525 posted on 01/03/2003 12:22:51 PM PST by js1138
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To: js1138
...or even logical sense...
2,526 posted on 01/03/2003 12:23:33 PM PST by js1138
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To: Tribune7
In the post 2525...

Because what we refer to as "rights" are enjoyed by all critters in their natural environments -- specifically, the right to life and liberty. All other rights derive from these two.

2,527 posted on 01/03/2003 12:25:07 PM PST by Junior
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To: whattajoke
"Man, I wish you were my physics professor in college! "But Professor Chugabrew, what I really meant was...""

Ha! The tests on my exams would tend to avoid the creation vs. evolution issue and stick to the observed facts within the discipline. As for a more thorough treatment of further assumptions and conclusions to be drawn from those facts, they do indeed belong under the discipline of "Philosophy of Science."

"Or better yet, my dad after that course was graded, 'But Daddy Chugabrew, that 'D' stands for 'Delightful!'"

I suppose it could have been predicted that an adherent of evolutionist presuppositions would try to weasel his ass out of a jam with semantic chicanery. Studies may one day result in the Theory of Evolutionist Fourberie gaining wide acceptance.

Does the introduction of some form of creationist thought automatically result in the need to launch off into all kinds of creation theories? Of course not. Those who know how to indulge in educational pursuits also know how to put the reins on implications arising from the same.

2,528 posted on 01/03/2003 12:25:13 PM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: PatrickHenry
HOW OLD IS THE EARTH?

Depends on how you define "Earth". Do you mean the currently-climated Earth? The swirling dust that coalesced into the Earth? Or way, way back when it was just a twinkle in God's eye?

2,529 posted on 01/03/2003 12:26:26 PM PST by lds23
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To: Fester Chugabrew
The tests on my exams would tend to avoid the creation vs. evolution issue and stick to the observed facts within the discipline.

So you would stick to listing observations, and eliminate constructs like Newton's laws, because they do not fit all the observations?

2,530 posted on 01/03/2003 12:29:40 PM PST by js1138
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To: Condorman
HCl + NaOH -> NaCl + H2O

Hey, that only works because the Goddess has enough tiny, invisible, assistants to manipulate all of those subatomic particles each and ever time they gather to worship Her through their eternal dance.

2,531 posted on 01/03/2003 12:32:28 PM PST by balrog666
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If Evolution is fact, where is the proof?

There is no proof because they've never found "The missing Link".

Until they find the proof Evolution is a theory and will remain a theory.

But then again if they found proof of Creationism all of the brain dead morons who post here bashing people who believe in Creation wouldn't believe it anyway so why discuss it?

Cheers
2,532 posted on 01/03/2003 12:33:32 PM PST by Leatherneck_MT
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To: Tribune7
Actually it's not the rights that are inherent but our needs.
2,533 posted on 01/03/2003 12:35:35 PM PST by BMCDA
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To: Junior
Because what we refer to as "rights" are enjoyed by all critters in their natural environments -- specifically, the right to life and liberty. All other rights derive from these two.

If these are inherent why do critters in their natural environments get eaten?

2,534 posted on 01/03/2003 12:36:35 PM PST by Tribune7
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To: Fester Chugabrew
Science would not be able to function if there were no such thing as design. Can we at least agree on that?

Science would not be able to function if we could not think and had intelligence, science is helped by things that WE design to see the world in better and different ways, microscopes, telescopes, radio telescopes etc.

Design could neither exist nor be comprehended unless there were such thing as intelligence. Can we agree on that?

We could NOT design unless we had intelligence, we would be living out on the plains and eating fruits and berries if we had not developed(evolved) greater intelligence.

The next step would be to infer something about that intelligence, and I think this is where the hang up is. Does intelligence necessarily carry the baggage of "God."

This is where we have a problem in communications, when you infer something, it is normally based on facts and knowledge.

Here, let me give you an example, this comes from a cartoon I saw, so it is not at all original.

I will make it basic, because that scientific mathematical stuff is WAY beyond me.

6+6+8+ then a miracle occurs 6+4+9= whatever crazy answer you want to make up.

I don't think one is forced to go there logically, but I certainly do not count it as crazy or unreasonable that throughout the history of mankind this has been assumed.

When the process is NOT understood, the easiest way to get out of it, is to say, a miracle happened, or godidit, or it MUST have been intelligent design.

THAT is NOT scientific, it is laziness. If you do not understand the process, you KEEP studying until you do, you do not throw up your hands and say, someone MUST have designed it, BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO PROOF that that is what occurred. Not even a smidgen of evidence that such an intelligent designer exists. THEREFORE IT IS NOT SCIENTIFIC!!!

The sheer amount and intricacy of design in the world makes that kind of assumption very reasonable.

Only if you are too lazy or are unable (due to technology etc.) to go out and find the REAL answers.

THe answers are out there, but to say, "it must have been an intelligent designer AKA: God, is laziness, or wishful thinking at best.

It is circular reasoning at it worst. I don't understand how that could have occurred, since I am a man, I will never be able to understand, because GODIDIT, so why bother trying to go any further.

No matter how you try to logically talk about ID being science, it ain't gonna happen. Not until you CAN PROVE that an intelligent designer exists.

When you can SCIENTIFICALLY prove that god exists, we will talk about ID being Science, until then it is just as much religion as creationism is, why? Because the premise is the same. GODIDIT.
2,535 posted on 01/03/2003 12:38:39 PM PST by Aric2000
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To: Leatherneck_MT
But then again if they found proof of Creationism ...

Would you care to describe what form such proof might take. I would probably listen to a burning bush (I'm not being sarcastic here -- I would be open to direct observation of a miracle). I would also be impressed by the "signature of God" found in some natural constant. But I am mistified by what you have in mind by proof of Creationism.

2,536 posted on 01/03/2003 12:38:43 PM PST by js1138
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To: BMCDA
Actually it's not the rights that are inherent but our needs.

You and Junior must debate.

2,537 posted on 01/03/2003 12:40:05 PM PST by Tribune7
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To: Leatherneck_MT
Hmmm... Leatherneck, eh? Methinks everything above your neck seems to consist of leather too.

Regards

2,538 posted on 01/03/2003 12:41:25 PM PST by BMCDA
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To: whattajoke
Go play in those caves again, please, it has been so nice without you.

How can we miss if you don't leave?
2,539 posted on 01/03/2003 12:42:01 PM PST by Aric2000
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To: Aric2000
globdidit...NO intelligence/design in you---your mind!
2,540 posted on 01/03/2003 12:43:01 PM PST by f.Christian
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