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Evolution Disclaimer Supported
The Advocate (Baton Rouge) ^ | 12/11/02 | WILL SENTELL

Posted on 12/11/2002 6:28:08 AM PST by A2J

By WILL SENTELL

wsentell@theadvocate.com

Capitol news bureau

High school biology textbooks would include a disclaimer that evolution is only a theory under a change approved Tuesday by a committee of the state's top school board.

If the disclaimer wins final approval, it would apparently make Louisiana just the second state in the nation with such a provision. The other is Alabama, which is the model for the disclaimer backers want in Louisiana.

Alabama approved its policy six or seven years ago after extensive controversy that included questions over the religious overtones of the issue.

The change approved Tuesday requires Louisiana education officials to check on details for getting publishers to add the disclaimer to biology textbooks.

It won approval in the board's Student and School Standards/ Instruction Committee after a sometimes contentious session.

"I don't believe I evolved from some primate," said Jim Stafford, a board member from Monroe. Stafford said evolution should be offered as a theory, not fact.

Whether the proposal will win approval by the full state Board of Elementary and Secondary Education on Thursday is unclear.

Paul Pastorek of New Orleans, president of the board, said he will oppose the addition.

"I am not prepared to go back to the Dark Ages," Pastorek said.

"I don't think state boards should dictate editorial content of school textbooks," he said. "We shouldn't be involved with that."

Donna Contois of Metairie, chairwoman of the committee that approved the change, said afterward she could not say whether it will win approval by the full board.

The disclaimer under consideration says the theory of evolution "still leaves many unanswered questions about the origin of life.

"Study hard and keep an open mind," it says. "Someday you may contribute to the theories of how living things appeared on earth."

Backers say the addition would be inserted in the front of biology textbooks used by students in grades 9-12, possibly next fall.

The issue surfaced when a committee of the board prepared to approve dozens of textbooks used by both public and nonpublic schools. The list was recommended by a separate panel that reviews textbooks every seven years.

A handful of citizens, one armed with a copy of Charles Darwin's "Origin of the Species," complained that biology textbooks used now are one-sided in promoting evolution uncritically and are riddled with factual errors.

"If we give them all the facts to make up their mind, we have educated them," Darrell White of Baton Rouge said of students. "Otherwise we have indoctrinated them."

Darwin wrote that individuals with certain characteristics enjoy an edge over their peers and life forms developed gradually millions of years ago.

Backers bristled at suggestions that they favor the teaching of creationism, which says that life began about 6,000 years ago in a process described in the Bible's Book of Genesis.

White said he is the father of seven children, including a 10th-grader at a public high school in Baton Rouge.

He said he reviewed 21 science textbooks for use by middle and high school students. White called Darwin's book "racist and sexist" and said students are entitled to know more about controversy that swirls around the theory.

"If nothing else, put a disclaimer in the front of the textbooks," White said.

John Oller Jr., a professor at the University of Louisiana-Lafayette, also criticized the accuracy of science textbooks under review. Oller said he was appearing on behalf of the Louisiana Family Forum, a Christian lobbying group.

Oller said the state should force publishers to offer alternatives, correct mistakes in textbooks and fill in gaps in science teachings. "We are talking about major falsehoods that should be addressed," he said.

Linda Johnson of Plaquemine, a member of the board, said she supports the change. Johnson said the new message of evolution "will encourage students to go after the facts."


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: crevolist; evolution; rades
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To: Junior
You beat me by a minute.
1,461 posted on 12/30/2002 8:35:15 AM PST by PatrickHenry
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To: js1138
Let's face it God has, in the flood, killed a higher percentage of living things than any deranged scientist of polititian could ever dream of doing.

Let's face it, God, in the course a normal working day, kills more living things than any deranged scientist.

And one day he's going to do it to you and me. How does one deal with that?

1,462 posted on 12/30/2002 8:35:50 AM PST by Tribune7
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To: Tribune7
And He does these things at times so people will believe in Him.

Exactly! And His miracles are used sparingly, typically to illustrate a specific point He's trying to make. However, there is no evidence of the miraculous in the ascent of man, nor is there any evidence of the miraculous in the ascent of life on this world. Indeed, all the evidence points to a mundane explanation.

1,463 posted on 12/30/2002 8:36:11 AM PST by Junior
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To: Junior
She's on our side. She was referring to creationists.

OH.

Those closed-minded folks.

:-(

1,464 posted on 12/30/2002 8:41:28 AM PST by js1138
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To: PatrickHenry
The other group has no evidence, other than some ancient and venerable writings, the sources of which are not available for verification.

Are sure about this ? Or is it just one group has evidence you agree with, while the other group has evidence that with you do not agree ?

If I was to study the reasons for the "young earth" theory, are you telling me all I will stumble across is ancient writings and not one bit of scientific reasoning ?
1,465 posted on 12/30/2002 8:48:02 AM PST by usastandsunited
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To: Junior
When multiple forms of radiometric dating come to the same conclusion as to the age of a rock sample, one can come to a fairly definite conclusion as to the age of that rock.

Only if you're the kind of person who believes in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy without asking questions.

A number of the problems involved in radiometric dating are discussed at this site.

The biggest thing which the purveyers of these kinds of theories have to explain to my own thinking is the question of how many of these kinds of heavy metals get to the Earth's surface in the first place. You'd think that if the Earth itself formed up via some condensation process as is generally thought to be the case, then all the heavy metals would be in the interior if not the center.

It seems much more likely that many if not most of the heavy metals got here from meteorites, asteroids, comets or whatever, after the Earth had already formed up and its crust hardened. In that case, the age of the heavy metals and the age of the Earth itself would be unrelated.

1,466 posted on 12/30/2002 8:48:28 AM PST by titanmike
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To: Tribune7
How does one deal with that? Lunchtime. MY ANSWER when I return.

;^)

1,467 posted on 12/30/2002 8:52:46 AM PST by js1138
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To: js1138
You make it sound as if there were something tricky about forming a fossil. There isn't. All you need to do is get buried in mud or clay before the scavengers and maggots get to you. That happens during large floods, volcanos etc. It cannot happen on a large scale via gradual processes as evolutionists and some geologists like to think.
1,468 posted on 12/30/2002 8:54:50 AM PST by titanmike
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To: usastandsunited
If I was to study the reasons for the "young earth" theory, are you telling me all I will stumble across is ancient writings and not one bit of scientific reasoning ?

Yes; because that's exactly what geologists do -- they study the verifiable evidence. If you're aware of some verifiable "young earth" evidence that geologists ignore, why not tell us about it?

1,469 posted on 12/30/2002 8:59:54 AM PST by PatrickHenry
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To: PatrickHenry
If you're aware of some verifiable "young earth" evidence that geologists ignore, why not tell us about

Well Patrick, it didn't take long to find several geologists who believe in the "young earth" theory. Before I go any further, I must tell you that many also are "Christians". Does a geologist being a "Christian" automatically mean the geologist is some crack pot with a hidden agenda and no verifiable evidence because he/she is a Christian ? Before I post links, I don't want to waste your time.
1,470 posted on 12/30/2002 9:22:37 AM PST by usastandsunited
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To: titanmike
Riiiiiiggghhhtt, while I'm sure Dr. David Plaisted is a well intentioned man, I'll begin believing a Computer Scientist on Geologic matters when I begin taking C++ pointers from Darwin.

Aside from the fact that he himself states on his homepage that his non-peer reviewed creationist articles are based on his fundamentalist christian viewpoint.

Next? Sheesh.
1,471 posted on 12/30/2002 9:26:56 AM PST by whattajoke
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To: usastandsunited
Before I post links, I don't want to waste your time.

I asked for verifiable geological evidence of "young earth" theory, and you respond by trying to provoke a dispute about religion. If you have no evidence, why not just say so?

1,472 posted on 12/30/2002 9:37:07 AM PST by PatrickHenry
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To: PatrickHenry
, and you respond by trying to provoke a dispute about religion. uh, i think you brought that up first.
1,473 posted on 12/30/2002 9:44:12 AM PST by usastandsunited
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To: PatrickHenry
LoL. Nice Try Patrick. Find some "facts", show how ignorant we are as a society by us not knowing these "facts". Then slip in this :
* 66% don't believe the Big Bang theory widely accepted by scientists;
* 48% believe humans lived at the same time as the dinosaurs;
* 47% don't believe in evolution which is widely accepted by scientists;
as if these are just more "facts" the ignorant people of society don't "know".

Besides, I thought you wanted to keep people's opinion influenced by their religion out of the discussion. About us info from your "SOURCE".
1,474 posted on 12/30/2002 10:27:38 AM PST by usastandsunited
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To: titanmike
Plaisted-style arguments are handled nicely in Radiometric Dating, A Christian Perspective. You may want to skip ahead to the section on "Common Misconceptions" if you're certain that you know everything else already. (BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!)
1,475 posted on 12/30/2002 10:47:31 AM PST by VadeRetro
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To: usastandsunited
I assume that you have no verifiable young earth evidence. If you did, you would have presented it. So the original question remains -- given that geologists do have such evidence, and given that you have no such evidence for any younger age, how do you decide what to believe?
1,476 posted on 12/30/2002 11:04:06 AM PST by PatrickHenry
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To: PatrickHenry
You can not limit God/creation to your dumb thinking...

God doesn't count on His fingers---your calender/date book!

Everything new would have age---history...even descendents.


You think you can interpret God with your stupidity---blidness--ego?

The Earth is old as God wanted/made it!

God isn't going to operate by your terms---expectations!
1,477 posted on 12/30/2002 11:23:46 AM PST by f.Christian
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To: A2J
Evolution by natural causes: Not proven (and cannot be) but widely assumed to be true based on available evidence.

Creation by divine design: Not proven (and cannot be) but also widely assumed to be true based on available evidence.

Which of these has been given unquestioned reign in the classroom for the past century in the United States? Which covers itself in legalisms preventing the slightest reference to the other? Which has adherents that squeak and squeal like pigs when the suggestion is made – even if only in a small textbook disclaimer - that other explanantions for the existence of the universe may be true?

The arrogance of so forcefully positing unproven matters while discounting other possibilities with equal force is unbecoming of educational pursuits. One would think evolution could produce more and more brilliant thinking over time. Alas, however, evolutionists are seen to bend over backwards in eliminating certain possibilities thus giving ample demonstration of devolution with respect to the sciences. Ancillary retro shift resulting from ingnorance held with the tenacity of a rabid pit bull.

1,478 posted on 12/30/2002 11:35:06 AM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: PatrickHenry
The Earth is old/YOUNG as God wanted/made it!

1,479 posted on 12/30/2002 11:38:34 AM PST by f.Christian
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To: titanmike
You make it sound as if there were something tricky about forming a fossil. There isn't.

Excellent. Now, since it isn't tricky and doesn't take long, point me to someone who's made one, and can tell how it's done.

1,480 posted on 12/30/2002 12:38:24 PM PST by js1138
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