Our Republic and Our Free Republic

9-6-02 | Joe Phillips

[BADJOE]

History teaches some very good lessons. They are hard to learn but our forefathers did a great job.

From the beginning of time man has overthrown one form of centralized government only to re-establish another one in its place. Our forefathers understood this far better than anyone ever had. They said governments are the eternal enemy of free men. They said that in order for man to remain free it would take a bloody revolution every other generation, unless you bound down (bastard) government with the chains of the constitution.

On another site this week a poster asked if anyone else hated government as much as he did. I replied to him

"Hell !! I thought you were not a good American if you didn't love our country and hate our government.

At least that is how I have always felt about it"

I think our forefathers had the same attitude that I have now. And I think it is inherent in the average Americans attitude to distrust and have disdain for any government, including ours. One of the hardest conclusions I had to arrive at as a young man, after having been a product of the public school system, was that our government was not on our side. As James Forrestahl, former secretary of the Navy, who suffered a mysterious death, once said about our State Department's foreign policy, " Stupidity is never a mark of consistancy. If they were merely stupid, they would occasionally make a mistake in our favor".

Newt Gringrich put it in a humourous manner when talking about the attitude of Europeans. He related the following story. If you go to Europe and drive on the Autobahn, you feel pretty good cruising down the highway at 100 mph when some some German passes you doing 140 mph. Now he said if the Bundestag passed the 55mph speed limit law, every German would dutifully obey that law, untill the next election. They would vote the 55 mph crowd out of office and the no speed limit crowd in. In America Newt said "A speed limit sign is a benchmark of opportunity.

It is obvious that Yankees and Euros have entirely different attitudes about government's edicts. There are darn few Americans who do not break the speed limit laws everyday.

Now we come to the Free Republic. Once a free wheeling, joyful site for news and discussion of politics, economics, philosophy, ethics and morals. I could not understand the transformation that has taken place in the last six months. Camaraderie, the sense of family, and cooperation seems to have disappeared. Are the Freepers exhibiting the same disdain for the new FR as Americans have for our government?

[tpaine]

Neener, neener.

[Cindy]

[tpaine]

What a difference a few years make. You posted this lengthy FR position statement without one reference to the Republican Party, and with only one line even mentioning party politics.
Any comments on your drastic change in outlook, JR?

The Purpose of Free Republic [Free Republic]
Address:http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3840d0615878.htm

[cva66snipe]

However, I see the Democrat Party as the leading cause and the primary mover for socialism in America. Their goal is to expand government and socialism even further. They will not rest until we have a completely socialized health care system.

Which party pray tell do you think I have been fighting in my state for the past 8 years on this very issue? You and others are missing the point myself and others are screaming aabout yet some can't seem to hear. Tell me if Don Sundquist was eligable for a third term and won the primary should I vote for him because he is a Republican? Well should I? Have you seen his track record? The DEMs love him. Good grief in 1998 they ran the party joke to make certain he stayed in office. Nothing like a nice Republican Socialist to do your dirty chores for you.

So what did Sundquiost the RINO do for the Tennessee GOP anyway? I'll tell you what he did and it's posted in many a thread in this forum. He split the party. He abandoned Conservatives. I'll tell you what had not a few DEMs had more conservative backbone than many of our state Republicans we would have a state income tax right now thanks to Don Sundquist-R.

You are not going to get results you want electing RINO's to office. Not now not ever it simply isd not going to happen that is truth. You just get problems like Sundquist which is two to fight against your party and the other.

Now follow this a moment further. I wish Sundquist had lost his very first election and a Dem got in office. Yes I said that and yes I mean it. But why?

Simply because Sundquist split the party in half giving leverage to the DEMs by GOP fools following his que simply out of a warped sense of party loyality to the jerk. Had he lost? The GOP would have been united to a common enenmy and been a lot more of a factor stopping the DEM agenda. It's sad how people can not see this for what it is. It is sometimes better to loose standing your ground than to win and the victory prize be given to your enemy.

What am I saying then? I would rather see the GOP loose fighting for a solid cause than to win fighting for the cause of the other side. A minority United is stronger than a majority divided. Especially when the numbers are as close as they are now. We don't need control of both houses first. We need a sense of cause first and right now the liberals cause is running first place in both parties mandates. If it takes a loss to bring the GOP back to 1994 thinking so be it. When it comes right down to it it's not the Committee seats that matter. What matters is what is passed or failed by vote in congress.

I can't buy into this direction being pushed. I think in the long run it's worse than the DEms winning a term. The GOP is out of control and is not intersted in what you, I, or any other conservative thinks. Electing more who think the same IN THE PARTY gets you what? You're voting yourself and your voice out of the GOP get it? I reckon some will wake up when they see a Liberal Kennedy on the GOP ticket. Then again some will see it as a form of victory as if they changed their views to suit ours.

It's quite obvious many in here do not share this idea or thought so with this post I will leave it at that for this thread.

[tpaine]

"A minority United is stronger than a majority divided." -cva66

Great one liner to use as a retort to all the roscoe-sque type statements made here on party loyalty.

-- Thanks.

[Jim Robinson]

Well, I just reread the post. I stand by every word. The change you see is my current push for a Republican majority. The Republican Party has no say in this opinion. It is my own. My goals are my own and I do not even know or care if they agree with me. As far as I know, they may be desiring to flush some of their own for whatever political or partisan motive. As of this moment, I support every Republican in Congress and oppose every Democrat in Congress 100%. It is my selfish desire to overturn some of the wrong that has been perpetrated, and to do whatever I can to help return the Constitution as the Supreme law of the land.

Seeing as how the people have finally evicted the evil party from the White House, I see a bit of a crease and would like to take advantage of that. I believe that the political climate has shifted a bit and that if we had a less liberal court we might be able to roll back some of the unconstitutional socialist excesses that have been enacted over the last few decades.

In particular, I believe that there is a fair chance of replacing some of the liberal activist judiciary, and even some of the Supreme Court Justices with conservatives, if we can maintain Bush in the White House and give him a Republican majority to confirm his appointees. This has potential of undoing much of the wrong, and possibly even reversing Roe vs Wade itself.

[xsmommy]

In particular, I believe that there is a fair chance of replacing some of the liberal activist judiciary, and even some of the Supreme Court Justices with conservatives, if we can maintain Bush in the White House and give him a Republican majority to confirm his appointees. This has potential of undoing much of the wrong, and possibly even reversing Roe vs Wade itself.

I agree with all you have said, but the above portion is the heart of it. What is a third party going to do about the current state of the judiciary? and presuming they are ever successful, WHEN would we see the effect in the judiciary? how much bad law can continue to be made in the interim?

[.30Carbine]

You give me increased hope! Even if you were the only man left saying these things I would still be more buoyant in my hopes for America for hearing them.

But you are not the only one. And don't you forget it!

I want to say, "I love you!" but that seems a little silly, and besides, your Mrs. might be watching!

Let me say then that I respect, admire, and seek to emulate you more and more.

[Jim Robinson]

Hah! Well, thank you very much. No, the Mrs. wasn't watching but she often has to ask me why I laugh so much while sitting in front of this computer.
Thanks again, Jim

[tpaine]

It is my belief that the majority of those in government, both Democrats and Republicans, whether elected, appointed, contracted and/or hired, along with the majority of the "journalists" in the major media are liberally biased and are seeking the continued unconstitutional expansion of federal power for their own greedy purposes and/or for the benefit of their private sponsors, and thus we few in the minority who defend the Constitution and the original vision of self government as envisioned by the Founders and set forth in the Declaration of Independence are dissenters.

As dissenters, we are constantly under attack from the authoritarians and the misinformed from both the left and right who want to perpetuate and grow the unconstitutional government control and dominance over we the people.
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That was then. [late 99]

This is now.
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I see that the only Party capable of blocking and defeating the evil Democrats is the Republican Party.

And what is this evil that triumphs when good men do nothing? What are we really talking about here and is it worth fighting for? Is it worth turning our heads and allowing evil to continue on while we do nothing?

(and I count voting for a third party candidate when knowing that he has absolutely no chance of defeating the Democrat, and worse, actually planning and hoping to knock out the Republican candidate who otherwise might have defeated the Democrat, as doing nothing).

[Jim Robinson]

And your point is?

[tpaine]

What a difference.

See ya later, going out for supper.

[ladyinred]

No reality is RINO's are going to be ran & a prefered media choice till H freezes over simply because the GOP lacks the guts to throw them out.

So in other words the Republican party can only consist of conservatives and not have a moderate wing, or (God Forbid) a left wing in your opinion? Although I am pretty to the right, I realize that my party consists of varying views, and that some people are conservative in some areas, and more moderate in others.

[ladyinred]

Fine with me & I wish you and others would stay out of the faces of those who do not each and every time vote GOP.

And visa versa.

[Mo1]

Another good post Jim

[cva66snipe]

So in other words the Republican party can only consist of conservatives and not have a moderate wing, or (God Forbid) a left wing in your opinion?

I didn't want to get back in here but this deserves an answer you and others need to think long and hard on.

THE LEFT WING IS THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY OR RATHER IT WAS TILL 1996! WHY INVITE THEM OR FOR THAT MATTER TOLORATE THEM IN THE GOP? IT WAS NOT THEIR POLICIES THAT GOT THE GOP IN POWER IT WAS CONSERVATIVE VALUES! REMEMBER? WHY PRAY TELL BRING THE GOP & YOURSELF DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL? That is exactally what is being endorsed here. /rant over!

[MHGinTN]

I really like your football analogy. It is time we took control of the game ... one damn corrupt dimocrat at a time, then one damn corrupt republican at a time! The trick is to start with the ones who will do the most harm the fastest and dimocrats have a history that proves them the most dangerous to this nations contniuing safety and to the most innocent.

[justshe]

Don't you find it interesting that tpaine would post this to you (and note the date of the JR quote he trots out every chance he gets):

[[[Sigh, - deport, listening to you and the rest of the big government apologist/appeaser types on threads like these, - is really getting depressing. You people have given up on liberty, imo.
JR recently reconfirmed that he firmly supported this overview:

"Free Republic is a place for people to discuss our common goals regarding the restoration of our constitutionally limited republican form of government. If people have other agendas for FR, I really wish they would take them elsewhere."

Thanks, Jim
226 posted on 2/7/02 4:01 PM Pacific by Jim Robinson
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It sometimes appears that very few freepers ~in reality~ have this same agenda as to restoration.]]]
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And yet he didn't ping JR.

VEDY interesting, imo. I don't think tpaine has the SLIGHTEST idea what JR was talking about in his essay.

[justshe]

You may have seen this. I haven't been 'shy' about posting it on many threads...LOL.

From the Rush Limbaugh Newsletter, Aug 02

Who picked the judges?

Johnson 1
Ford 5
Nixon 7
Carter 38
GW Bush 59
Vacancies 95
Reagan 142
Bush 156
Clinton 359

Clinton appointees account for 47% of the current federal bench.

If that isn't enough to motivate all the 3rd party voters to help re-take the Senate....then so be it. They will continue to undermine the goals we have set for ourselves by siphoning off votes. I just don't want to hear any of them bitching about much of anything.

[ladyinred]

No need to rant. You will notice I did say God forbid there are any lefties! I also don't consider anyone who is left in the Republican party to be left as in the Democrat party. Perhaps that was a poor choice of verb on my part. To me, there is a world of difference between someone left of conservative, and someone who is a socialist democrat. I am probably making this worse, but I know what I mean! :) Don't feel you need to come back here again!