Replies

AMPU, you are a real peace of work. There is n craftiness going on, there is not attempt to hide anything.

I profess my witness from the heart and have said it to you honestly and yet you chose to believe the opposite because you somehow..."rightly judge" someone and their intent, and their integrity (you are the one who has over and over called it lies and false).

You have no such insight or knowledge which is obvious by the very fact that you cannot see or judge the heart, and I have given you ample witness to the contrary.

You live in a bubble of your own fabricated zealousness against people who should be you allies in the fight for our Republic and liberty.

So be it...your choice.

You can follow me around, as you imply, and knit pick and throw your darts all you want...it will only reflect badly on you as you go to such great efforts to tell people that something honestly and sincerely shared is somehow a deep dark conspiracy.

Jesus Christ is my Savior, AMPU. I accept Him as such and seek with all my heart to follow Him and bring others to Him. He that suffered in the Garden and on the Cross for all of our sins...yes, even for a member of the LDS faith such as I.

My witness is true, it is sincere, and there is no ill intent or deception involved in it. The Bible itself teaches that no man professes or confesses Jesus Christ in such a manner except as moved upon by the Holy GHost. I so confess Him to you now.

These are simple, true words and yet you must go to great mechanisms to try and wrest them into something they are not.

Shame on you, and may God have mercy on your willful treatment of a simple, true witness of our Savior.

I'm done trying to reason with you in civil discourse. Your heart is hardened and more than willing to call good evil. I'll make my wintess, with no more concern for your response or thinking somehow that you simply misunderstand. It is clear you do not. You go ahead and follow and respond as you have done here. Spit in the wind if you must.

He that suffered in the Garden and on the Cross for all of our sins...
_____________________________________

No Jeff...

Youvfe been told time and time again...

The4 LORD Jesus Christ who is God did not suffer in the Garden of Gethsemanee for anybody’s sins...

He shed His blood on the Cross and died on the Cross for our sins in our place and took the deaqth penalty for those sins in our place so we did nopt have to ...

He died in our place so that we could be forgiven fot EVERY sin even murder ...

But it did not happen in the Garden...

It happened on the Cross...

I want you to know that my own opposition to Romney is based upon what I regard as conservative principles and upon my Roman Catholic faith. Romney's Mormonism has nothing to do with my opposition to him. I have known and politically worked with numerous members of the LDS Church. I have always found the Mormons with whom I have been acquainted to be folks of admirable character, serious faith and sound values.

I have never met Mitt Romney or the late George Romney, or the late Lenore Romney, or the late Morris Udall, the late Stewart Udall or today's two senators Udall. I have found little reason to be enthusiastic in support of any of them. That lack of respect has nothing to do with their being or having been Mormons. I have met Orrin Hatch and my opinion of him is generally good but fluctuates with his political performance although I have no doubt that he is a fine and decent man who is sincerely committed to the LDS faith.

As I understand it, the LDS Church is pro-life and pro-marriage and has proven over a long history in our country to be a genuine asset to our nation. As a Catholic, I disagree with some beliefs of other religions and Mormonism is no exception but that does not prevent me from having high regard and respect for individual members of those churches and for each and every good s=aspect of each such church.

I have always regarded it as a weakness of FR that all too often people express not simply their witness to their own respective faiths but also harsh criticism of the faiths of others. FR ought to be a place for conservatives of whatever faith to gather, to discuss matters conservative with due regard for others and to build working relationships to achieve the stated goals of FR.

Jeff, you and I adhere to differing faiths. My experience with your posts here is that, while I may disagree with you from time to time, I have always found you worthy of respect and to be a genuine conservative. If I lived in your vicinity, I would seek you out as a probable ally.

May God bless you and yours!

Shame on you, and may God have mercy on your willful treatment of a simple, true witness of our Savior.

Uh, Jeff; where does Joseph Smith enter into the equation??

"He (Joseph Smith) is the man through whom God has spoken... yet I would not like to call him a savior, though in a certain capacity he was a god to us, and is to the nations of the earth, and will continue to be."

- Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:321

"You call us fools; but the day will be, gentlemen and ladies, whether you belong to this Church or not, when you will prize brother Joseph Smith as the Prophet of the Living God, and look upon him as a god..."

- Herber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses 5:88

"If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]"

- (as quoted in 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142)

There is "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God"

- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190

"I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God; and there are many of them beside him. I tell you, if we get past those who have mingled with us, and know us best, and have a right to know us best, probably we can pass all other sentinels as far as it is necessary, or as far as we may desire. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, "Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;" if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again."

- Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155

"It is because the Lord called Joseph Smith that salvation is again available to mortal men.... If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation,"

- Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 396, 670

They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.

He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.

He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.

As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.

Who has made this so?

Have I?

Have this people?

Have the world?

No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.

If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.

If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.

Can you pass without his inspection?

No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.

In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.

They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?

They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?

Brigham Young,

--JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224

Jeff, what you try to accuse me of is what you do throughout your post! Better reread FRiend.

I made it clear I don’t know your motives - I can only see and evaluate your words.. Which are choices you make. I can certainly see those.

Further, I’ve asked you repeatedly for clarification, when you post the clintonian stuff. You always reply with more of the same plus claiming to be a victim plus claiming I’m judging your heart plus... Anything except an honest, forthright communication. I don’t know why. Maybe you do not want to publicly claim what you believe in its totality. Maybe you’ve been trained by Dr. Millet to avoid talking about anything that would make potential recruits uncomfortable? Maybe you want to make Mormonism sound less than a perversion of Christianity? I do not know your motives. I can observe you always do it, so it is reasonable to conclude you do it intentionally.

If you deny this, why not come right out here and state how many gods you believe exist? Not just how many you choose to worship, but how many you believe exist. Why not come right out and tell us about your Mormon belief that god the father and your Mother god have sex to produce offspring, or that god the father used to be a man but became a god, or that Christ (the one you claim you believe in) was created by sex between your other gods? Start there, instead of consistently obscuring your mormonic beliefs while claiming to be oppressed and judged.

I suspect the reason you won’t do is is one of the reasons above. If it isnt, why not end all speculation and tell us why you parse your words so carefully to avoid owning what you believe as a Mormon?

In the meantime, drop the whole victim hood thing. Whining isn’t conservative. Just be forthright and tell more than half-truths.