Posted on 08/01/2012 11:18:33 AM PDT by Seizethecarp
"Meet The Parents....of alias Barack Obama. Black Sunni Muslim father and White Lebanese Christian mother. Born in the ME, raised in Indonesia, became BHO II in 1982." Dr. Ron J. Polland
The “Mal-Val” youtube video at the link was posted by FReeper Polarik (Dr. Ron Polland) in August of 2011 and while morphing the image of a woman named “Val” into an image of Obama, he insinuates that “Val” is Obama’s mom. One year later this youtube has only 1,150 views.
In July 2012, two FReepers associated the woman, “Val,” in Polarik’s Youtube with Lebanese actress Valerie Sarruf and have posted multiple images of her at various ages on FR eligibility threads. I am opening this thread to invite discussion of and links to any evidence that either supports or refutes a claim that Valerie Sarruf is Barack Obama’s mother, with or without Malcolm X being his father.
Where could Malcolm X and Valerie Sarruf have been in 1960 when baby Barry would have been conceived? Is there any evidence that Sarruf could have been pregnant and delivered a baby in 1961? In what country could the baby have been delivered? How and when could the alleged Mal-Val baby have been inserted into the identity and life narrative of the person we have come to know as Barack Hussein Obama?
Full disclosure: I refute categorically all of the Mal-Val narrative as wildly speculative and unsupported by any evidence that I have seen so far.
For several years now a shadowy coterie of FReepers styling themselves as “researchers” has gone onto nearly every FR eligibility thread to aggressively refute all evidence that Stanley Ann Dunham was Barack Obama’s mother. They have actually declared flat out that she was never in Hawaii before 1963, contrary to the voluminous evidence including INS FOIA documents!
Requests for links or any evidence that Stanley Ann is NOT the mom have been frequently met with abusive ad hominem attacks and accompanied by claims that ALL documentary evidence showing her to have been in Hawaii in 1960 and 1961 is forged, but no credible evidence of forgery has offered. I make this observation as a retired Certified Fraud Examiner and CPA.
For years the “researchers” had claimed mysteriously to have conclusive evidence that a different woman is Barry’s mom, but refused to reveal her name or any evidence other than her picture because the “researchers” claimed it would disappear from the net and/or from hard copy archives of the records. But this month, the “researchers” appear to have slipped up and revealed that Valerie Sarruf has been the woman whose identity they have been “protecting.” They have since attempted to walk back the revelation, but it is clear, IMO.
The “researchers” claim that they earnestly want to remove Obama from office. But wouldn’t revealing ALL EVIDENCE of a foreign mother and foreign birth (which they also claim) be the most logical approach to removing Obama rather than hiding the identity of this alternative mother for years while attacking FR threads that sincerely attempt to find out where Stanley Ann Dunham was when she gave birth to Barry?
In my opinion, the best evidence that Valerie Sarruf is NOT Barry’s mother is the mountain of evidence that Stanley Ann Dunham IS his mother, which the “researchers” have totally failed to refute.
Again, please use this thread for discussion of and links to any evidence that either supports or refutes a claim that Valerie Sarruf IS Barack Obama’s mother with or without Malcolm X being his father.
I'm not a researcher trying to find stuff, I'm just a reader and learner trying to learn. IMHO the way to find the truth is not by trying to make an alternative narrative, but rejecting every single bit of "info" that is not independently verified by non-0bama supporters and/or mere hearsay, rejecting the info on any documents many (non 0bama supporting) investigators say to be forgeries, and starting with a clean slate. Trying to force bits of info - some real, some not, some twisted - into a "narrative" is counter productive. The best way is to find whatever info is out there, sift it through, and whatever is verified, it's a part of the puzzle. The picture or narrative may not be clear for some time. By trying to force info into any narrative is a method that insures failure.
There is no comparable consistent alternative birth date given by Barry or his agents that I have seen.
See above for why "narratives" are useless. People need to look for factual info that relates to any and all characters, peripheral or major, and if the info doesn't "fit" a narrative, get rid of the narrative. Just find info that is not false, and see what picture emerges. Anything else - having a story in mind, and forcing bits of info into the story and rejecting any info as "false" that doesn't fit - bad, bad method.
You're just full of sorts of LIES today, aren't you?
Give the exact reply number where you presume I've told a lie.
Support your assertion!
Meanwhile, back to digging...
The Obama Hustle - Cold Case Posse: Could Malcom X Be Barack Obama’s Real Father? March 1, 2012
Now it comes to light through a knowledgable and impeckable source for The Obama Hustle that the Cold Case Posse led by Mike Zullo has difinitve proof that Malcom X is Barack Obama’s natural father?
And yet not a word was said at the latest press conference. Hmmmmmm...
And what a strangely worded and posed...is that a question or a statement?
That picture is sourced from Mark, the darker boy on the left, who says it is him and his younger deceased brother, David.
The four picture grouping with David in the upper right and the other three pictures claimed to be of Barry only demonstrates that David looks very much like Barry consistent with having the same father (claimed to be BHO Sr. in one narrative) yet is a different little boy as the forehead proportions and eyes are different to my eye.
Maraniss interviewed David and Mark's mom in Kenya and she provided the birth dates of November 28, 1965 and September 11, 1967 for Mark and David. Using those dates of birth, 1970 is a best fit for date of the picture of the two boys and also the family picture of those same two boys with BHO Sr. and Ruth in an extremely motherly pose.
The Mal-Val “researcher” narrative corollary that “David never existed” has been reiterated in the comment I am replying to, but no evidence that this boy never existed is credible, IMO.
A closely related Mal-Val “researcher” narrative corollary is that the “dark boy” next to David is not Mark but a person who was born as the “original Barack Hussein Obama” and grew up to be Roman Obama (of Equatorial Guinea).
In the Mal-Val narrative the “dark boy” (who is really Mark) supposedly was born to BHO Sr.and a secret wife, an Asian appearing woman named Anna S. Obama, who mysteriously ends up in Seattle in January 1961 and is babysat by Mary Toutonghi...a relative by marriage of Valerie Sarruf!
There is no evidence of any of this Mal-Val narrative, but only flimsy speculation triggered by Mary Toutonghi’s ADMITTEDLY POOR MEMORY in one article.
Please place in this thread any evidence that supports the following Mal-Val narrative claims: 1. David never existed 2. The dark boy being Roman Obama, not Mark Obama 3. Evidence that Barry and Roman were ever together to pose in the picture as claimed in the Mal-Val narrative corollary. 4. Evidence that an Asian Anne S. Obama existed, such as a marriage license, INS doc, transcript, Polk address, (Polk at U of WA corroborates Stanley Ann's address and confirmed whereabouts from multiple sources).
That makes sense. Now to find out how BBC “discovered” her and what she was doing where at the time BBC discovered her prior to these TV roles. They usually pick actresses who attend prestigious London acting schools and have performed successfully in London theater and are reliable actresses.
I disagree. In forensics, narrative is called the “theory of the case” and it must be sequentially logical and coherent. The famous “means, motive and opportunity” is a shorthand statement of what a narrative placing a person at a crime scene able to commit the act.
Each actor in the Barry saga (father, mother, Barry) has a real-life 1960-61 narrative including the journalists shorthand list of who, what, when, where, why, how all of which must make sense.
The BHO Sr.-SADO-Barry narrative is very nearly complete, IMO, with the exception of where was Stanley Ann between Feb 2, 1961 and late August 1961, the dates she was last claimed to have been accounted for in the FOIA documents.
For the Mal-Val narrative, there is no coherent narrative and only a morphing pair of images in a Dr. Polland youtube with no forensic value.
Now you're telling lies!
The keywords are "philman_36 fag", not just philman_36.
You're really reaching now, just don't reach for me. I don't go that way.
Really, how so?
Who am I to explain anything to you? I'm @a nobody, remember?
You should be able to figure it out for yourself.
Still waiting for you to show where you presume I lied.
I didn’t lie, but you did, LIAR! Yes, very interesting that so much came up about you. So why is it that don’t you like Chick-fil-A?
And once again I'll ask you to support your assertion and simply give the exact reply where you presume I've lied, just like I just did with @your reply 227.
You need to get out more before you try your smear merchant antics...@reply 7.
I disagree. In forensics, narrative is called the “theory of the case” and it must be sequentially logical and coherent.
Your personal disgreement is irrational. Forget theories, ideas, fondly held beliefs, what you think is true and what you think isn't true. How can facts be placed into a true narrative if there is very little to go on in the beginning? The only sensible method is to eliminate everything that is doubtful or questionable, start all over with ONLY that which is known, and work in whatever direction that takes. Sometimes dead ends happen. Then you try again. You're just trying to stuff round pegs into square holes.
Empty your cup. Reality can't fit in a mind that is filled with all kinds of stuff that ain't so.
Another detail is the fact - not debatable - that there is a large team of criminals who have been lying, creating a fake backstory, writing false articles and biography, hiding photos, hiding documents, creating forgeries, pulling articles off the internet, out of archives, out of libraries and so on and so forth, and aiding and abetting the hiding of an entire life. Working against this large team who have been at it for years is not easy work, is not like other "forensic" experience you might have had. It is a large freaking criminal enterprise, going on for a long time.
Your problem is you place too high a value on your own ideas, beliefs and methods that might work in other situations but don't work in this one. "Humility" and realizing "I don't know what I thought I knew" are vital.
BTW, that’s called a lie by omission.
233 - Working against this large team who have been at it for years is not easy work, is not like other "forensic" experience you might have had.
If you're not a researcher then how can you know "it's not easy work"? Supposition?
Applying your logic, the Mal-Val narrative must be rejected.
Applying your logic is how the “Dreams” narrative has also been extensively debunked. Only documents for which no credible proof of forgery is evident and which can be cross-corroborated can be accepted. That is the case with the BHO Sr.-SADO narrative, which now lacks only DNA to confirm the sperm donor and a credible sub-narrative to account for where SADO was between Feb and Aug 1961.
In comparison, there are NO documents that support the Mal-Val narrative or any of its corollary sub-narratives (no David, Roman Obama is BHO2, Anna S. Obama).
After a recent little back and forth with you, I learned what you are like. I won’t be replying to you any more; just explaining why I won’t. Discussing with you is like discussing with a yellow jacket nest. Just not worth the trouble; no good outcome for the one who is not a yellow jacket.
Where has this document been posted?
I only recall seeing the UW transcript from the 1970s.
Except Trowbridge said Mom was related to Fred Newton Communist leader?
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