Posted on 04/19/2010 8:18:35 AM PDT by erod
Hi FRiends,
I have two brothers who I love very much, they’re young and libertarian Ron Paul supporters, sigh. We get along and I’m hoping that one day they’ll come back to conservatism, but they have bought into a theory that I don’t think makes much sense:
Abe Lincoln was a dictator.
There are many websites dedicated to this nonsense you can Google "Abe Lincoln dictator" and get some weird stuff, if you want to check it out.
I need your help in busting this myth are there any books I can read on this subject to dispel this stuff? Do you know any of the arguments to combat this nonsense? Ie. Lincoln did not want to free the slaves.
Thanks for taking time out of your day to help me out, -Erod
You can't. But it's fun to see what people think it would be like. One thing I've noticed is that your compatriots all seem to have a rosy future predicted for the Confederate States. Unjustified, IMHO. I think that, given its start, the Confederacy faced a harder and more problematic future than you all care to admit.
The downfall of this nation will be at the hands of the urban areas. To great extent the Civil War was fought between urbanites and agriculturists. It is still going on.
If the rebs had semehow won the first war, it is doubtful whether the Confederacy would have even lasted 20 years. The Southern people would have soon tired of the oppression and exploitation of the many for the benefit of the few and would have thrown off the tyranny with the aid of their countrymen to the North.
While industialization and urbanization was making headway on a narrow coastal strip, the North as a whole was still a highly agricultural land in the 1860s. Southern farmer soldiers often found they had more in common with their Yankee farmer counterparts than with the non-working aristocracy who led the Confederacy into rebellion.
“The Southern people would have soon tired of the oppression and exploitation of the many for the benefit of the few and would have thrown off the tyranny with the aid of their countrymen to the North.”
Yep, we’re tired of it. So, how about we join up and get rid of the few (politicians) who benefit from the exploitation of the many, and end this tyranny?!
The word was "quotebox", numbnutz, do you know what that means?
Oh, wait -- on internal evidence, that would be a NO.
Over 80 percent of the U.S. population in 1860 lived in rural areas. I don't think the percentage varied that significantly between North and South. Likewise the overwhelming majority of our population, North and South, today is urban.
Well you asked for my opinion and I gave it. You can reject it if you want but I strongly suspect that the reparations required in the case you speak of would have been nothing compared to what would have been required of the North if the South had won. The fact that many in the North agreed with the South that what Lincoln had done was illegal and contrary to every founding principle of the United States would not have saved them then although it may well have played a part in whether or not the petition of a former Union state wanting to join the Confederacy at some later time was well received.
Nobody has a crystal ball, but the idea that all conflict and change would stop if the South got its way is nonsense.
Look back at the turbulent history of populism in the South and you'll be able to surmise that there would have been plenty of conflict between haves and have nots.
With race as an issue things get even messier.
Look back at how the South was even fifty years ago and you'll get a clue as to how things might have been in an independent Confederacy.
To some extent, being part of a larger country allowed the Deep South the opportunity to defuse tensions that might have been explosive in a more confined environment. For all the complaining, being part of a superpower has had advantages for both North and South.
What the CSA Constitution would be like 150 years on is hard to say, but one can't assume that the political climate would be harmonious -- or even as civil. It's also not clear that the region would be as prosperous as it is has become.
Yeah, you can’t go out and buy one or two and whup up on them like you used to. You must be sooooo disappointed.
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You pathetic little piece of sh*t. You are a real tool. How dare you say that? You should be banned from FR forever!
You are obsessed with race, and I do mean obsessed. if I didn’t know better I would think you were black or married to one.
And wouldn’t that just turn your stomach if it were true?
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No, it would make it easier to understand if some of your ancestors were held as slaves.
Well I have no idea what it would be like, only what I hope it would be like. Perhaps like the Montgomery Alabama that I remember as a very small child. The Montgomery that my ancestors speak of in their letters, journals and diaries.
Indeed it is.
If the rebs had semehow won the first war, it is doubtful whether the Confederacy would have even lasted 20 years. The Southern people would have soon tired of the oppression and exploitation of the many for the benefit of the few and would have thrown off the tyranny with the aid of their countrymen to the North.
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You are a moron. That is nothing more than wishful thinking on your part and pure speculation. What you fear most is that it would have been the opposite of what you stated. Pig!
Maybe I was there on the Brown? Or maybe the Vreeland? Maybe we were in the same squadron, or maybe we weren’t? Maybe I was on the Wainwright? Or what if I was assigned onboard the Semme
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Or maybe none of the above and maybe you were there just to visit a fort and play with willy.
. Working 4 to midnight
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More lies Dearie, your posting history is proof to anyone that this is a lie unless you want to admit you spend most of your working hours posting on FR about slavery and Lincoln while you are getting paid to do something else. You are a fraud and a liar.
A lot. Lincoln inveterately played his cards very close to his vest and habitually -- out of personal policy -- never let people really know what he was thinking. He was secretive about his goals and methods.
People like William Herndon and John Nicolay said this about him, two men who knew him better than many, from close observation over years of daily interaction. Nicolay was young and green, but Herndon was a peer, and I simply follow him when making inferences about what Lincoln said and did, in an effort to understand what he really intended all along.
<Bows low and doffs hat, plume sweeping grass>
A more appropriate monument would be a butcher block and cleaver.
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