Posted on 04/19/2010 8:18:35 AM PDT by erod
Hi FRiends,
I have two brothers who I love very much, they’re young and libertarian Ron Paul supporters, sigh. We get along and I’m hoping that one day they’ll come back to conservatism, but they have bought into a theory that I don’t think makes much sense:
Abe Lincoln was a dictator.
There are many websites dedicated to this nonsense you can Google "Abe Lincoln dictator" and get some weird stuff, if you want to check it out.
I need your help in busting this myth are there any books I can read on this subject to dispel this stuff? Do you know any of the arguments to combat this nonsense? Ie. Lincoln did not want to free the slaves.
Thanks for taking time out of your day to help me out, -Erod
Do you venture outside of your gated community to visit this great Union of equals very often?
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I can answer that and he has answered it in his past posts. The answer is no. Only if passing through MIA. His wife is terrified of snakes and they heard the Everglades was infested with Pythons. Way to scary for them down here.
Save it. I can't imagine it's sincere to begin with.
Something must have happened to you in the South to cause your intense hatred of it.
Nothing I'm aware of. But then again in all my time in Charleston I never met people as completely pathological in their hatred of the U.S. and Yankees as you and your buddies are. Had I met people like you in the flesh while I was down there then I'd probably hate it as much as you claim I do.
Maybe it’s jealousy, coming from Chicago and now stuck in Toto land....
Among the infinite number of wonderful things that Kansas City and Chicago have going for them is the fact that they are hundreds and hundreds of miles from wackjobs like you and Idabilly.
On the contrary, when it comes to your beloved and imaginary South I don't care at all.
This is the second day of your constant slurs against Southerners.
Time does fly on these threads, doesn't it?
It would seem anything of a southern perspective incites your attacks.
Paranoia is a common trait among stone Lost Causers.
As I said before, the South represents the American archetype.
And as I've said before, only if we live in your fantasy world.
When your beloved (unknown) creates a culture that transcends the pedistrian please let me know.
And when your imaginary culture comes to fruition you be sure and do the same.
Until then, be happy in Lincolns’ and John Browns’ embrace.
And you be sure to reminisce on the good old days where you spent your time whupping up on the chattel.
Is it safe to visit Grant’s tomb? Do you venture outside of your gated community to visit this great Union of equals very often?
Sure. I don't think New York has enforced that ban on Southerners for a number of years now.
Please get a hold of “Father Abraham”...really excellent book with a ton of quote and footnotes of that time and of the debates during the election period. The whole tenor of that era was a divided congress and nation concerning the enslavement of black humans. It was huge and amazing how it’s history has been twisted.
Yes, the south had a technical right to secede, but the motivation was to keep their freebee slave labor going and they were actively exporting it to new states. Lincoln was very visionary and saw that evil has not just staying static, but eventually consuming and destroying America because it was growing to new states and he saw that that evil spirit which was behind it would not stop with blacks, but would want to creep into other races. He tried terribly hard to slowly reduce slavery and even offered federal money to assist those southerners who freed their slaves and had to adjust. But alas, the demons of slavery were so embeded into the minds of many southerners that it took the death of over 600,000 young and older americans to rest it free from their beliefs. And then Lincoln wanted to complete the job with voting rights and all of the equal rights that took place after Jim crow..but the demon in Booth had other plans.
pathological in their hatred of the U.S.
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Ok, you have said that over and over and I let it slide. Not once has anyone said they hated the U. S. Only YOU have said that you sorry POS. You are the hater. Don’t make me prove it because you know I will, I’ve done it before. You HATE southerners and the South and anything that is in any way related to it. You are literally OBSESSED with Lincoln and slavery. Slavery is over and has been for many years.
You were on troll lists LONG before I ever joined FR. I think they need to make an as*hole list. That is the one you belong.
Now get back to work, you waste all day on FR while you are being paid to work. Loser.
ROTFLMAO!!!! I swear you are about the dimmest bulb in the Southron shed. Do you honest equate Florida with 'this great Union of equals'? There are 49 other states you know. Or 56, depending on who you talk to.
And I've never been to Miami. Fort Lauderdale, yes. Miami, no.
Thanks for the kind words, but my source in this case is a dead-tree almanac from 25 years ago. It's a decent source, but of course I can only quote not link. Produced by the World Almanac people, it's titled (unsurprisingly) The Civil War Almanac. The credits are slender, being John Bowman ed., Ian Hogg and Antony Preston technical consultants. It has an intro by Henry Steele Commager (liberal barf alert) but no discernible PC bias beyond the usual strain of muted Northern triumphalism, and it has back-cover blurbs from Arthur Schlesinger and William Manchester. The main part of the book is a chronology, followed by two modest technical sections and a biographical section arranged alphabetically. It lacks a bibliography and contributor list but has an index.
There are only two entries for Arkansas secession in the chronology. The statment from May 6, 1861, is that "[a]t Little Rock, Arkansas, the state legislature votes 69-1 in favor of secession." Bald statement, no elaboration. An earlier entry from March 18 says that Arkansas did have a state convention, but that the convention voted against secession but agreed to a later statewide referendum on the question during the summer. I have no later references to political events in Arkansas. The action of the state legislature is the last word on the subject.
You must be terribly disappointed.
You should know that the ancestors of NS arrived in this country early in the 20th century from Eastern Europe.
That fact, along with 9 or 10 years worth of the revisionist trash he continually posts here, tells me you all you need to know and also informs you as to why I no longer waste my time trying to reason with him. There is no point to it.
I do however wonder how he makes a living since he seems to spend every waking moment of every day posting his garbage here.
Posting on FR and Playing with his Ken Doll is all he finds of interest
He’s about as useful as a pogo stick in quicksand.
Well, well, well .... pot calls kettle black.
You will now rush to defend both Roe and Dred Scott for our amusement -- just to be consistent.
Tell us how finely reasoned Dred Scott was, how masterfully Wm. O. Douglas educated us about penumbras and interstices, and how the bigots needed to be slapped down in Roe.
Perhaps you'd like to take a shot at overturning Colorado's Proposition 2, and California's Proposition 8 while you're at it -- the People can be wrong, after all, in your book, and need federal courts to show them their chains.
So signify to us -- in what do the People err, when Roe rises in their gorges? Surely you will slap them down, to defend the authority of the Supreme Court and their superordinating power to invent stuff not in the Constitution.
Show us the Constitution alive, you and your soulmate Al Gore.
N-S has argued in the past that the Government is the Sovereign, but pushes back against the showing that that is fascism.
His theory is that we signed our death warrants when we ratified the Constitution and so fell into the hands of John Marshall and the "living Constitution" aggrandizers.
I think he'd sign on to the idea that a federal judge has the power to depopulate a district or a State with fire and sword at discretion -- if only he can concoct a judicial theory.
You should know that the ancestors of NS arrived in this country early in the 20th century from Eastern Europe.
Thanks, I kind of suspected that. Funny how “we” are all Americans as soon as we step off the boat. NS seems to be unaware that my family and many like mine created this America he is so fond of trashing. I doubt seriously any of his kinfolk were at Yorktown keeping the prolitariate down. If it weren’t for my slave holding ancestors who formed the country, wrote the Constitution and allowed immigrants to follow, we would have certainly won the war. NS seems to forget that the average union soldier was an immigrant unable to buy his way out of the draft. I guess that doesn’t legally qualify as slavery in his eyes. Interesting point, a male slave in his 20s was worth more than a union soldier. Too bad Ireland could not feed their own, the South paid dearly for their failure, even after sending famine relief to them. Send us your poor and huddled masses and we will arm them and send them to south to kill Americans. Great recruiting poster.
[You, pettifogging] The same kind of talk you claim justifies unilateral secession.
Nice try at misdirection, Al. "Oh, look -- there goes ManBearPig!!"
You don't even have a quote or a line of the Constitution on which to base your airy assertion that the President has the power to suspend habeas corpus, and yet here you are. That's pettifogging -- and "living Constitution" b.s., rich and smelly.
The power to suspend is located in Article I, which is about the powers of Congress. It is likewise a Congressional power -- or will you claim it now for a federal district judge? You want it up in the air -- how about I suspend your "corpus"? Let's all just take some initiative here and go around suspending habeas all over the place, because Non-Sequitur claims that the Framers forgot to forbid the practice to presidents, judges, enterprising ambulance-chasers and private citizens.
You don’t even have a quote or a line of the Constitution on which to base your airy assertion that the President has the power to suspend habeas corpus, and yet here you are. That’s pettifogging — and “living Constitution” b.s., rich and smelly.
I believe we all understand that the Constitution means absolutely nothing. Its deft defense by your hero renders it merely a fig leaf for those with the most guns. Might makes right. I seriously wish you would not try and resurrect what you heartily enjoyed destroying?
All he knows about American history is what he learned at the knee of other red diapers in the halls of modern, pop culture, academia.
I assume you meant "proletariat." Too bad that's not the word that fits into that sentence.
But what do I know, my family has only been here 100 years.
Polemical hypercharacterization, and of course untrue. I'm unaware of any Southerner on this site who has asserted that Lincoln was a bigger racist than anyone else.
If you have a quote like that handy, specifically from mojitojoe (since you used the pronoun "you"), now would be the time to post it up or withdraw your remark.
..... in spite of the fact that his views were far more advanced than any Southerner you would care to name.
When? In 1858? Not hardly. More advanced than southern abolitionists? Don't think so. Lincoln was a colonizer, remember.
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