Jefferson vs Lincoln: America Must Choose

Tenth Amendment Center. ^ | 2010 | Josh Eboch

[Idabilly]

Over the course of American history, there has been no greater conflict of visions than that between Thomas Jefferson’s voluntary republic, founded on the natural right of peaceful secession, and Abraham Lincoln’s permanent empire, founded on the violent denial of that same right.

That these two men somehow shared a common commitment to liberty is a lie so monstrous and so absurd that its pervasiveness in popular culture utterly defies logic.

After all, Jefferson stated unequivocally in the Declaration of Independence that, at any point, it may become necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them…

And, having done so, he said, it is the people’s right to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Contrast that clear articulation of natural law with Abraham Lincoln’s first inaugural address, where he flatly rejected the notion that governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed.

Instead, Lincoln claimed that, despite the clear wording of the Tenth Amendment, no State upon its own mere motion can lawfully get out of the Union; [and] resolves and ordinances [such as the Declaration of Independence] to that effect are legally void…

King George III agreed.

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

And being obsessed with homosexuality is one of the defining qualities of you and the rest of the Lost Causers. You guys seem to think about it all the time.

[rockrr]

I get the impression that they do more than just think about it...

[KrisKrinkle]

First let's address your “the People of the United States” . When ‘The people’ talk - they do so as a State.

I don’t see that your comments really adversely affect mine since I was writing about the States. When I wrote “note that that’s plural indicating all of them, not a part of them” I meant that “United States” is plural, indicating all of them and not just one or more States which would constitute a part of them.

You can cite Mr. Madison in 1830, from his old age .

Like I wrote, I question that part of the cite from 1830.

About that “from his old age” part: You must be a young whippersnapper. When you get older you may think that the years have allowed you to develop maturity and wisdom, not that that always happens with all of us. :)

In 1799, He proclaimed something completely different.

Seems true enough from the words you posted.

[central_va]

We deserve better, smarter and braver countrymen. The Yankee Night-crawler Brigade would back Stalin if he were President against any state(s) trying to make a break for it.

No state(s) should have to fight their way out of this cartoon bastardization of a republic. I hope it goes peaceful, but I'm good either way.

[Idabilly]

“About that “from his old age” part: You must be a young whippersnapper. When you get older you may think that the years have allowed you to develop maturity and wisdom, not that that always happens with all of us. :)”

Not that young :) We have three little hungry monsters of our own. I can remember my Grandfather as he aged, thirty years can change someones perspective considerably.

[Non-Sequitur]

The Yankee Night-crawler Brigade would back Stalin if he were President against any state(s) trying to make a break for it.

And the Lost Cause Brigade would back Hitler if he was leading the secession drive.

[Idabilly]

“And the Lost Cause Brigade would back Hitler if he was leading the secession drive.”

Hitler has already chosen his side. Fortunately - he picked your side! Is your uncle Adolf represented in your Tyrant statue collection?

[rustbucket]

There were about 20,000 Germans in Texas. The counties where they settled were the center of Unionism in Texas. Many of the Germans headed to Mexico to avoid being drafted into a war they didn’t support. In one case, confederate cavalry ran down one group of 60 heading to Mexico, massacring more than half of them, many after they’d surrendered. The oldest Civil War memorial in Texas is dedicated to those victims and is inscribed “Treue der Union.” It is one of six locations in the country where the US flag flies permanently at half staff.

I've seen a figure of 2,179 Texans who served in the Union Army (Source: Lone Star Blue and Gray by Wooster). That figure includes some 443 Hispanics and 500 Anglo Americans (Germans, Irish, etc.) recruited in the Rio Grande Valley. I've also seen somewhere that the Germans who were killed in the incident you posted about were headed to Mexico to join the Union army. Don't know if it is true or not.

The Texas German community, largely concentrated in the Hill Country, provided almost 2,000 men for the Confederacy per the following words from a plaque in New Braunfels, a German town in the central Texas Hill Country.

They proved their loyalty to their adopted country by fighting for the independence of Texas at the Alamo, Goliad, and San Jacinto, by participating in the war between the United States and Mexico, and by raising twenty one companies of nearly two thousand men for the defense of the Confederacy.

I am also reminded that Fleet Admiral Chester W Nimitz of Fredericksburg, Texas was raised in Fredericksburg by his grandfather, who served as a Texas Confederate cavalry captain. BTW, Admiral Nimitz was in charge of over 2,000,000 troops in the Pacific in WWII.

[central_va]

Secession of a single state would mean “dissolution of the government,” Story wrote. Nonsense. After eleven Southern states seceded in 1860–61 the U.S. government proceeded to field the largest and best-equipped army in the history of the world up to that point. It was hardly “dissolved.”

Doomed from the start?

[Non-Sequitur]

Hitler has already chosen his side. Fortunately - he picked your side! Is your uncle Adolf represented in your Tyrant statue collection?

Nonsense. He had more in common with Jeff Davis. Both headed intrusive governments with war time economies dependent on slave labor.

[cowboyway]

That's because you politically define yourself by where you live.

Damn, boy, you're dumber than an anvil. I define myself by what I believe in. It just so happens that the region that I live in is populated mostly by people that define themselves the same way.

I don't define myself that way, although I'm sure you won't fail to do so for me. It's just another place

Well that's nice. I'm sure that you won't have any trouble adjusting to Fearless Leaders one world order when you can proudly proclaim that you are a Citizen of the World! Just another place, right?

having fodder for your lame attacks,

I believe it was you and that POS ns that was using that tactic on idabilly, was it not? Pot, meet kettle.....

[cowboyway]

So can you secede? Not your state, just you.

Q: What makes up a state?

A: People

Do I have to give you a detailed explanation or can you figure this shit out on your own? The day that you finally snap out of ns's trance is the day that you'll awaken to the truth.

[cowboyway]

I get the impression that they do more than just think about it...

Yap! Yap! Yapyapyapyap! Yapyap! Yapyap! Yapyapyapyapyapyap.......

BTW, did you get those stallion stalls 'cleaned' out?

[central_va]

I get the impression that they do more than just think about it...

Actually, it's true thinking is all "we" can do until the rest of the citizens of my state realize the hopelessness of the situation and DEMAND a clean break from the USA.

Sucks to be a law abiding tax payer...

[central_va]

Dear Night Crawler Brigade:

Instead of bashing us "Lost Causer's", why not be useful and convince us neo-rebs the situation is not hopeless and we can restore the pre-"Abraham the Butcher" Republic.

Go ahead, I'm listening...

[rockrr]

Yap! Yap! Yapyapyapyap! Yapyap! Yapyap! Yapyapyapyapyapyap.......

There's lil pokie, up bright and early, out running the fenceline and barking at the neighbors. You probably yap more since they had you fixed.

So did they give you those little plastic balls to replace the ones they chopped off?

[central_va]

The Constitution is in taters, we are on the edge of pure socialism and all you can do is bash cowboyway. Wow, tell me, how isn’t the situation hopeless?

[RegulatorCountry]

The Constitution is in taters

Well, at least the crabs aren't in the collards yet.

[central_va]

taters=tatters (Spelling Nazi’s must be appeased)

[RegulatorCountry]

Try having a sense of humor, it works better than a constant harangue.

And, if you were familiar with the Carolina colloquialism with which I replied, you’d realize that it was applicable in more ways than one.