Posted on 11/15/2008 6:48:02 PM PST by palmer
It's apparent that a combination of fervent believers and a small number of psychopaths and/or infiltrators have dominated the birth certificate discussion. The early evidence was in their favor and everyone should have been skeptical of the low res images on Kos, smears and politifact. The new evidence is not and is not being addressed objectively.
But photo #5 (and some of the others) is a genuine photograph of an artifact. It was not created in photoshop. That doesn't mean photoshop was not involved. A plausible set of steps is
1. Scan a real COLB including the border
2. Import into photoshop and change the text to Obama's text
3. Print the result onto the cross hatched paper (could be forged separately)
4. Obtain a embossing seal and apply it to the printout 5. Fold it as if it came from an envelope and display it to the factcheck photographer.
Another plausible scenario is someone in the Hawaii office did all the forging but on the official equipment and using the official seal. Another possibility is someone stole a seal and sold it to a forger. It is certainly possible for a forger to make a seal using the right equipment (probably a laser etcher).
The Kenya trip meme seemed to turn into an established fact in early July when proposed by null and void and properly ridiculed. Even into November null and void can only repeat her hypothesis (a honeymoon) apparently unwilling or unable to embellish it further.
Polarik surrounds himself with a number of true believers and useful idiots. The useful idiots are the ones who validate or praise his analysis while obviously not knowing anything about it. The true believers have convinced themselves that Obama was not born in Honolulu and are unable to evaluate the evidence objectively.
In their favor, the true believers have established that Obama has potential Indonesian citizenship (courtesy of Soetoro) as well as potential Kenyan citizenship (courtesy of Obama Sr). These are true regardless of where Obama was born. For the former the Kenyan citizenship would have to be activated by Obama. For the latter, Soetoro would have had to apply to make Obama an Indonesian citizen, it does not happen automatically via adoption.
The bottom line for Polarik is he has yet to address the certificate linked above. He has promised to do this for weeks now and is instead disseminating and repeating his various diatribes against Obama. My guess based on his past behavior is that he will release a rehash of the evidence against the old scan (Kos, smears, politifact) with a bit of new verbiage against the factcheck photos. He will properly point out some oddities in some of the photos while ignoring the obvious salient features in the decent photos such as number 5.
He and I have already argued about the seal (embossing) in number 5 and he claims it is a perfect circle (therefore forged). I showed that it wasn't http://i433.photobucket.com/albums/qq51/palmer2/circle.jpg and he replied with a very similar result except he used some edge detection first. He obviously just fools with some tools, but doesn't obtain any useful results. When it comes to image analysis he is a dabbler, not an expert.
With cover from his defenders he establishes a "sensitive" personality claiming that he is being ruthlessly attacked. He says that as a result he will stop posting on the certificate issue when he is done with his final writeup. I don't know if that's a real sensitivity or faked, but even if it is faked there are thousands more that will step into his shoes if he disappears.
That thread and others contain useful nuggets about other Obama problems. There are alternative threads that speak to real evidence although some of those get beaten down by the Polarik army. Polarik's followers also use Freepmail to spread gossip about posters like myself and allegedly (according to them) posted about me on another forum.
That is all good. The more publicity I get on this particular issue, the better. But I remain concerned that FreeRepublic will have the appearance of a conspiracy site because only a rather intensive conspiracy could produce the evidence photographed by Factcheck.
I am also concerned that Factcheck and others might be deliberately planting poor quality evidence in an attempt to hook in the Polariks of the world and their followers. That would not necessarily require a conspiracy although I admit it has the flavor of one. It is to the liberal opposition's benefit to keep as many people on false trails as possible not just to waste their time but to portray them as unhinged. That result was detrimental in the last election and will be detrimental in 2010 and 2012.
IMO of course.
What I heard on FoxNews was also reported at bizjournal..here is their quote:
“The director of Hawaii’s Department of Health confirmed on Friday what Barack Obama has been saying all along: the presidential candidate was born in Honolulu.
“There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama’s official birth certificate,” said Chiyome Fukino. “State law prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record.”
Citing her statutory authority to oversee and maintain Hawaii’s vital records, Fukino said she has “personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.”
NOW, maybe you should check it out with the news agencies. I’m NOT saying they are right, only what was reported.
I said it was a dead issue because Hawaii is backing him up, and if you want to beat a dead horse have at it. I gave you what was on the news, as I don’t see anyone tackling this due to Obama being 1st black Pres. I voted McCain-Palin, so whine all you want, but don’t expect any judge to do anything about this...you’all are wasting your time.
Sorry to tell you, but I don’t know who Eunice Moscoso of The Austin Statesman is.
It does not tell me what was quoted so I can’t defend myself. But it must have been something intelligent on my part.
see my reply at 402
No. Assuming that Obama was born in Hawaii, as you seem to be acknowledging, then he is a natural born U.S. citizen. U.S. citizenship is a birth right that cannot be taken from you by anyone, not even your parents in the case of a minor. If Indonesia doesn't want to acknowledge dual citizenship then fine. But it the eyes of the U.S. government Obama continued to be a U.S. citizen up until his 18th birthday. At that time, Obama could deliberately perform any one of several actions known as expatriating acts, which would have forited his U.S. citizenship. He didn't. In fact when he was 18 he'd been back in the U.S. for 8 years living in Hawaii and going to school. He never gave up his U.S. citizenship so there was no reason for him to reapply for anything.
see my comment at 402
She never said that the BC on file said he was born in Hawaii, did she?
In case of adoption, Hawaiian law allows the adoptive parents to be listed as the birth parents, and further, in the case of adoption of foreign born children specifically allows the BC to reflect Hawaiian birth!
So saying that an "original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures" is on file says nothing as to the location of birth.
A child born in Bangladesh and adopted in Hawaii, by Hawaiians would have his original Bangladeshi birth certificate on file (and sealed by court order as part of the adoption proceedings) in accordance with Hawaiian law, and could have an available (not sealed by court order) COLB-of-record that shows his adoptive parents as his birth parents, and his location of birth as in Hawaii.
It was. And very much to the point.
Look I am not defending anything here, so don’t kill the messenger...I just told you about the FoxNews report and the fact that all the media are satisfied, and they could care less about anything to do with his B.C. Just because you are upset about it, doesn’t mean the judges will do anything about it. If they do great, but don’t get your hopes up.
I wasn't attacking you!
I was calling Chiyome Fukino out on a possibly misleading statement.
IF she has seen 0bama's real birth certificate, on file in accordance with Hawaiian law, and she neglects to mention that it shows a place of birth outside the US...
THEN she is using a partial truth to hide the foulest kind of lie, a half truth.
That she didn't say “I have personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate showing Honolulu as his place of birth on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.” might be a perfectly innocent omission on her part.
OTOH, it's precisely how a pathological liar or a politician parses the 'truth' to tell a lie.
OK her are some things we no with some degree of certainty. 1. When he was admitted to the bar, he was asked under penalty of perjury. Have you ever used any other name or Alias. Answer No.
This one I don't know for sure, but it is reasonable to assume that he was asked similar questions on his filing to run for President.
I would be satisfied to know how he gets a pass on perjury?
Well that did set the precedent for "Fake but Accurate" documentation. </ Sarcasm>
Journalism died in 2008. Evidence?
This exchange last Thursday between Tom Brokaw and Charlie Rose on PBS (thanks to Rush):
ROSE: I don’t know what Barack Obama’s worldview is.
BROKAW: No, I don’t, either.
ROSE: I don’t know how he really sees where China is.
BROKAW: We don’t know a lot about Barack Obama and the universe of his thinking about foreign policy.
ROSE: I don’t really know. And do we know anything about the people who are advising him?
BROKAW: Yeah, it’s an interesting question.
ROSE: He is principally known through his autobiography and through very aspirational (sic) speeches.
BROKAW: Two of them! I don’t know what books he’s read. ROSE: What do we know about the heroes of Barack Obama?
BROKAW: There’s a lot about him we don’t know. The don’t know much about him? After all this time? There are tapes of him from 1995, 2001, etc. records from when he was an organizer and lawyer for ACORN, and when he worked with Ayers. There is his associations with Wright, Ayers, et. all and NO INVESTIGATION OF IT.
This exchange is perhaps one of the most ludicrous, preposterous conversations I have ever read. Brokaw moderated probably the WORST debate in modern history. What questions were asked in that debate? NOTHING OF VALUE. Their job is to find out who the candidates are for us with objectivity and professionalism. It makes you want to hurl.
Uh, does that apply to Obama's statements as well?
Didn't think so. </ Sarcasm>
Easier to can you, and maybe he should.
You know what? I looked at them, and low and behold, every criticism of the original fake documents were corrected, maybe they learned something reading here on FR?
Of course a traceable Serial number would have been nice.
More fake promises, or dare we hope you are telling the truth?
Lets not forget Bill's retroactive tax on dead people.
I agree it would be easy, and can all the other critics while you are at it. Then you can have a nice little fact-free circle jerk.
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