Posted on 11/15/2008 6:48:02 PM PST by palmer
It's apparent that a combination of fervent believers and a small number of psychopaths and/or infiltrators have dominated the birth certificate discussion. The early evidence was in their favor and everyone should have been skeptical of the low res images on Kos, smears and politifact. The new evidence is not and is not being addressed objectively.
But photo #5 (and some of the others) is a genuine photograph of an artifact. It was not created in photoshop. That doesn't mean photoshop was not involved. A plausible set of steps is
1. Scan a real COLB including the border
2. Import into photoshop and change the text to Obama's text
3. Print the result onto the cross hatched paper (could be forged separately)
4. Obtain a embossing seal and apply it to the printout 5. Fold it as if it came from an envelope and display it to the factcheck photographer.
Another plausible scenario is someone in the Hawaii office did all the forging but on the official equipment and using the official seal. Another possibility is someone stole a seal and sold it to a forger. It is certainly possible for a forger to make a seal using the right equipment (probably a laser etcher).
The Kenya trip meme seemed to turn into an established fact in early July when proposed by null and void and properly ridiculed. Even into November null and void can only repeat her hypothesis (a honeymoon) apparently unwilling or unable to embellish it further.
Polarik surrounds himself with a number of true believers and useful idiots. The useful idiots are the ones who validate or praise his analysis while obviously not knowing anything about it. The true believers have convinced themselves that Obama was not born in Honolulu and are unable to evaluate the evidence objectively.
In their favor, the true believers have established that Obama has potential Indonesian citizenship (courtesy of Soetoro) as well as potential Kenyan citizenship (courtesy of Obama Sr). These are true regardless of where Obama was born. For the former the Kenyan citizenship would have to be activated by Obama. For the latter, Soetoro would have had to apply to make Obama an Indonesian citizen, it does not happen automatically via adoption.
The bottom line for Polarik is he has yet to address the certificate linked above. He has promised to do this for weeks now and is instead disseminating and repeating his various diatribes against Obama. My guess based on his past behavior is that he will release a rehash of the evidence against the old scan (Kos, smears, politifact) with a bit of new verbiage against the factcheck photos. He will properly point out some oddities in some of the photos while ignoring the obvious salient features in the decent photos such as number 5.
He and I have already argued about the seal (embossing) in number 5 and he claims it is a perfect circle (therefore forged). I showed that it wasn't http://i433.photobucket.com/albums/qq51/palmer2/circle.jpg and he replied with a very similar result except he used some edge detection first. He obviously just fools with some tools, but doesn't obtain any useful results. When it comes to image analysis he is a dabbler, not an expert.
With cover from his defenders he establishes a "sensitive" personality claiming that he is being ruthlessly attacked. He says that as a result he will stop posting on the certificate issue when he is done with his final writeup. I don't know if that's a real sensitivity or faked, but even if it is faked there are thousands more that will step into his shoes if he disappears.
That thread and others contain useful nuggets about other Obama problems. There are alternative threads that speak to real evidence although some of those get beaten down by the Polarik army. Polarik's followers also use Freepmail to spread gossip about posters like myself and allegedly (according to them) posted about me on another forum.
That is all good. The more publicity I get on this particular issue, the better. But I remain concerned that FreeRepublic will have the appearance of a conspiracy site because only a rather intensive conspiracy could produce the evidence photographed by Factcheck.
I am also concerned that Factcheck and others might be deliberately planting poor quality evidence in an attempt to hook in the Polariks of the world and their followers. That would not necessarily require a conspiracy although I admit it has the flavor of one. It is to the liberal opposition's benefit to keep as many people on false trails as possible not just to waste their time but to portray them as unhinged. That result was detrimental in the last election and will be detrimental in 2010 and 2012.
IMO of course.
A birth certificate MUST be shown to get a U.S. Passport, right?
Surely this man has a U.S. passport — unless, of course, he has a passport from another country.
This is not a silly pursuit.
What is weird is he provided an obvious forgery and it was not even a birth certifcate (BC) it was a COLB.
Why would you post an obvious forgery of a COLB? The COLB does not prove he was born in HI. My guess is he may not know what the real BC looks like circa 1961 so they whipped up the fake COLB.
Is it Feb 8th yet? Bwahahahahahah!
“But I remain concerned that FreeRepublic will have the appearance of a conspiracy site because only a rather intensive conspiracy could produce the evidence photographed by Factcheck.”
Never base your actions on fears of what others will think.
Speaking of GWB... doesn't this whole Certifigate issue remind you of Rathergate, with the computer-generated documents and such?
0 needs to produce the original long form certificate.
>>It is not about talking about who won the ball game last night, American Idol or grandpa’s ******* cream corn recipe. Geez.<<
A bold and fine statement.
Country First, the rest is frosting on the cake.
There is an issue here. We need to find out.
And if we have posters coming on here to dismiss it, I say, “What’s up with you?”
It’s grown old answering posts like this.
The premise is obvious and strightforward as is the solution. If you can’t figure that out or refuse to face the simple answer, then you’re not worth the time.
Surely you can agree that many people will lie to claim relationships to famous people they don't really have. Their statements are worthless without proof.
Bambi is not qualified under the guidelines of the Constitution.A COLB doesnt proove sh!t.For you people who say other wise is fine.Just keep it to yourselves ok?
Yes it does. But the Factcheck photo of a COLB is adequate to satisfy most people's curiosity because that is all that is expected under normal circumstances. A large majority of certificates across the country are similar to the Hawaii COLB. Some people in other states have certified photocopies of their real BC, but not Hawaiians.
Hey there swmobuffalo
I have family in-law on 65 north of you in Urbana.
Hows the weather up there?
tpd
When I first saw it, and for months afterwards, I thought the birth certificate issue was internet garbage. But then I actually looked at the details. I suggest you do the same! There is a VERY serious problem with this. Yes, his grandmother claims she was present when he was born in Mombassa, Kenya - Berg supplied affidavits and transcripts of an interview with her to the Supreme Court where she claimed this. The COLB thing is an absolute joke, just look at it! WHY won’t he just provide the actual birth cerificate? WHY will he and the DNC spend mountains of money fighting to NOT show the certificate rather than just show the freakin’ piece of paper? Turn your BRAIN on. A child could look at this business and smell a dead fish. Something is very seriously wrong, THAT’S the only reason he/they would go to the lengths they have to NOT show the piece of paper. If you want to call his grandmother (and a brother and a sister) a damn liar, I guess you’re just a racist. Shame on you. I believe that his grandmother, a brother, and a sister, would not lie about that. ESPECIALLY since he’s gone to such extravagent lengths to NOT show us that piece of paper.
Someone mentioned Keyes jumped in the race at the last minuted with a CA resident as VP. There is something too that. Keyes is a very loyal (conservative) GOP guy. He jumped into the IL Senate race at the last minute to help the GOP. He is a team player. There is something there.
As far as the FR members complaining about posts on the birth certificate.
What do you want to talk about? Palin’s wardrobe? All the RINOs? Maybe ACORN’s fraud - oh don’t want to talk about that.
Just ignore us while we talk about the Constitution and the coup’d tat we just had.
If I had access to about a dozen blank short COLB forms and a raised seal stamper, I could probably whip up just about the same things as FactCheck has photographed. Just need some photoshop and a little time; the content can be whatever random crap suits you.
At least until the original long-form copy comes out; then it's game over, because the lie is exposed.
THAT is why it's so important to see the real form, and why the FactCheck short COLBs are useless, even if they are legitimately from the State of Hawaii.
The low res scans at Kos and Smears are not debatable. They could have been forged rather easily. I am only debating how the Factcheck photos were created. If those are a forgery than it would have to be by the steps I outline above.
Is it just me or does that certificate number look completely bogus?
It doesn’t look like anything else on the document.
Also, It’s my understanding that the dispositive document is the CERTIFICATE of Live Birth, not the CERTIFICATION of Live Birth.
Look, the whole issue may be off base but the Obama camp has done everything they can NOT to produce the dispositive document IN COURT. There has to be a reason for it. Maybe it’s just something embarassing but he should be required to produce it in a formal proceeding. It’s not an unreasonable request. John McCain did it!
You're awful mouthy for being here a whole month. Relax.
the volumes of evidence against O being a citizen are so great at this point that there most assuredly is fire and a raging inferno at that and not merely smoke.
Palmer,
If you are going to try to call someone out, you might want to include the person in the discussion.
Besides, it is a courtesy to ping FReepers if you mention them in a post or reply.
From the Selective Service website: "Employment in the Executive branch (and Post Office) is barred to any male who did not register between the ages of 18 - 25. "
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