Can FreeRepublic be salvaged? (Birth Cerificate)

none ^ | today | palmer

[palmer]

It's apparent that a combination of fervent believers and a small number of psychopaths and/or infiltrators have dominated the birth certificate discussion. The early evidence was in their favor and everyone should have been skeptical of the low res images on Kos, smears and politifact. The new evidence is not and is not being addressed objectively.

The Certificate

There are photos at FactCheck like the one linked above ( http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/birth_certificate_5.jpg) To the credit of the believers there are a variety of photos at Factcheck that don't all look like the same artifact. Also we know that Factcheck is not an unbiased organization and, even if they are completely innocent, they would believe any lie or forgery given to them by the Obama camp.

But photo #5 (and some of the others) is a genuine photograph of an artifact. It was not created in photoshop. That doesn't mean photoshop was not involved. A plausible set of steps is
1. Scan a real COLB including the border
2. Import into photoshop and change the text to Obama's text
3. Print the result onto the cross hatched paper (could be forged separately)
4. Obtain a embossing seal and apply it to the printout 5. Fold it as if it came from an envelope and display it to the factcheck photographer.

Another plausible scenario is someone in the Hawaii office did all the forging but on the official equipment and using the official seal. Another possibility is someone stole a seal and sold it to a forger. It is certainly possible for a forger to make a seal using the right equipment (probably a laser etcher).

Trip to Kenya

There's no reasonable explanation for why Obama's parents went to Kenya and a good reason they would not: expense. There's no evidence that they went to Kenya except some allegations of testimony. Lawyers like Berg have not been able to present their testimony in court so it can be evaluated. But a recording of a person who allegedly Obama's grandmother saying she was present at his birth in Kenya is not evidence of anything except that someone made a recording of someone saying something.

The Kenya trip meme seemed to turn into an established fact in early July when proposed by null and void and properly ridiculed. Even into November null and void can only repeat her hypothesis (a honeymoon) apparently unwilling or unable to embellish it further.

The Infiltrators

Polarik is an obvious candidate. His rantings on his blog are full of flowery rhetoric against Obama (some is pretty well written) accompanied by the most pathetic attempts at explanations that I have seen in this case. How anyone can mistake him for an expert is beyond me. Using his "analysis" is being used for any legal case is the kiss of death.

Polarik surrounds himself with a number of true believers and useful idiots. The useful idiots are the ones who validate or praise his analysis while obviously not knowing anything about it. The true believers have convinced themselves that Obama was not born in Honolulu and are unable to evaluate the evidence objectively.

In their favor, the true believers have established that Obama has potential Indonesian citizenship (courtesy of Soetoro) as well as potential Kenyan citizenship (courtesy of Obama Sr). These are true regardless of where Obama was born. For the former the Kenyan citizenship would have to be activated by Obama. For the latter, Soetoro would have had to apply to make Obama an Indonesian citizen, it does not happen automatically via adoption.

The bottom line for Polarik is he has yet to address the certificate linked above. He has promised to do this for weeks now and is instead disseminating and repeating his various diatribes against Obama. My guess based on his past behavior is that he will release a rehash of the evidence against the old scan (Kos, smears, politifact) with a bit of new verbiage against the factcheck photos. He will properly point out some oddities in some of the photos while ignoring the obvious salient features in the decent photos such as number 5.

He and I have already argued about the seal (embossing) in number 5 and he claims it is a perfect circle (therefore forged). I showed that it wasn't http://i433.photobucket.com/albums/qq51/palmer2/circle.jpg and he replied with a very similar result except he used some edge detection first. He obviously just fools with some tools, but doesn't obtain any useful results. When it comes to image analysis he is a dabbler, not an expert.

With cover from his defenders he establishes a "sensitive" personality claiming that he is being ruthlessly attacked. He says that as a result he will stop posting on the certificate issue when he is done with his final writeup. I don't know if that's a real sensitivity or faked, but even if it is faked there are thousands more that will step into his shoes if he disappears.

The End

In the end however, the postings of Polarik are just spam. There were always brouhahas like this on FR and always will be. We survived them before and can survive again. The fact that Polarik's defenders jump on any reasonable poster asking a few skeptical questions is not going to make a big difference to those posters. The fact that 6000 post threads can be constructed without any reasonable explanation of why Obama's parents went to Kenya and without any reasonable analysis of the factcheck photos means lots of people wasted lots of time, but at least it was concentrated in one thread.

That thread and others contain useful nuggets about other Obama problems. There are alternative threads that speak to real evidence although some of those get beaten down by the Polarik army. Polarik's followers also use Freepmail to spread gossip about posters like myself and allegedly (according to them) posted about me on another forum.

That is all good. The more publicity I get on this particular issue, the better. But I remain concerned that FreeRepublic will have the appearance of a conspiracy site because only a rather intensive conspiracy could produce the evidence photographed by Factcheck.

I am also concerned that Factcheck and others might be deliberately planting poor quality evidence in an attempt to hook in the Polariks of the world and their followers. That would not necessarily require a conspiracy although I admit it has the flavor of one. It is to the liberal opposition's benefit to keep as many people on false trails as possible not just to waste their time but to portray them as unhinged. That result was detrimental in the last election and will be detrimental in 2010 and 2012.

IMO of course.

[Technical Editor]

Hi, JMack, This is actually one of Donofrio's arguments, I believe. Yes, I stole it. http://www.blogtext.org/naturalborncitizen/ See the first item on the page, Posted: Nov.15.2008 @ 10:06 am | Lasted edited: Nov.15.2008 @ 9:16 pm. ------ What I don't know is whether this argument is part of his appeal to the Supreme Court. I think it's not. This is so maddening that I am ready to march somewhere (or I'd think seriously about it). If this is the way we do business, Arnold should have run!

[willn62]

I am sorry to tell you Palmer, but I do have a certified copy of my Hawaiian birth certificate from 1962, certified in 1985. The LONG FORM. Would you like to know the attending physician? How about the Registrar?

Why does Obamas COLB say “Date Filed by Registrar,” and not “Date Accepted By State Registrar”?

[willn62]

Thank you, that might explain why Obama’s only says “Date Filed by Registrar.” Most other COLB’s from Hawaii say “Date Accepted by State Registrar.”

[usmcobra]

The best example that the COLB in "photo #5" that it is a forgery is the muddled border not the lack of artifacts between the letters.

The Fact Check photo are based upon every criticism of the KOS COLB and all subsequent editions used by the Obama team, gradually they were refined until they could pass muster with all the complaints against them save one.....

The butchered border, in order to show a link to the first edition they had to keep the border as it was while they added thing like the folds and the stamp as well as the signature and signature block on the back. But it is that blotched border that originally drew the most criticism and they have never changed it.

It is the one thing that cannot so easily be explained away and it shows in every Factcheck.org and other version of the COLB provided by Obama, but is missing from COLB from ordinary citizens with document of the same vintage.

You asked for proof that Fact check Photo #5 is a forgery, look at the border, it's wrong for that document.

and if I might add one more issue The COLB is folded wrong, it is folded in a zig zag shape to show it had been folded rather then folded inward to protect the information on the face of the document.

[happinesswithoutpeace]

Speaking of the CIA. It was someone who was ex-agency and a friend of Valerie Plame’s who first started pushing the “Michelle Whitey” tape...then months later the API picked up on the fact that people were still waiting for a “whitey” tape that never showed up and then said they had some recordings of their own..which was all after the fact.

[palmer]

If you don’t like these threads, stop posting to them, and even better, stop creating vanities to discuss them. It’s like you walked into a party in JimRob’s house, walked up to a group, and told everyone you didn’t like what they were discussing, they are all nuts

I was politely chewed out for doing that up thread. My response is to look at where I started, this thread here at post 26 http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2127901/posts?page=26#26 where Calpernia, one of Polarik's most fervent followers, posted the same stupid picture she posts on practically every thread about the topic. The picture is meaningless having originated at a website run by a Nigerian who claims to be "African Press International" but is not an authority on anything.

The same stupid picture was reposted at post 60 and I replied to the poster at post 72 criticizing the same stupid people who post the same stupid picture (although I used much nicer words). I then corrected a poster in post 77 who was thoroughly confused about when the COLB was produced (2002) when all the fonts existed. We are not Buckheads folks!

In post 80 Grandpa Dave posted the Malcom X morph, created by Polarik, which adds a new inane element to his pointless non-analysis of the issue. I noted in post 92 that the Obama born in Kenya graphic comes from some Nigerian scam artist (I don't know the guy, but the site is registered to a guy in Nigeria). The site was weakly defended in 97.

GSC had a decent reply to me in post 118, although it didn't address the main concern of photo #5. In post 120 Calpernia spammed the thread with another stupid picture she posts a lot that is supposed to represent, in cartoon form, how Obama's COLB was created. It obviously doesn't address the real artifact of photo#5 I linked to in this thread. I replied in post 124 for her to use her common sense (she has none apparently).

She asked me a question in 135 which has an obvious answer (140). She posted her ridiculous birth announcement font analysis in 143. Once again people, you are not Buckheads!! In 155 she repeats the myth from the 6000 post thread that Jay McKinnon admitted forging an Obama COLB (he admitted no such thing) and she linked to that thread. That's when I crossed to that thread and read the first 2000 posts or so from last July and the most recent ones.

Those guys on that thread had made zero progress against the major issue of how the forgeries could have been created (what I posted about in this thread). Also they hadn't figured out why Obama Sr and O's mother went to Kenya.

Finally in post 156 I briefly outlined the steps necessary to produce the Factcheck photos to Calpernia. After that I could only basically just repeat them over and over because the followers of Polarik have been drilling an alternate reality into their heads for 4 months and can't shake it. This thread is to make that point utterly clear and attack them and particularly Polarik for wasting everyone's time. (I admit I am wasting 4 days, but they wasted 4 months).

[palmer]

I am sorry to tell you Palmer, but I do have a certified copy of my Hawaiian birth certificate from 1962, certified in 1985. The LONG FORM

No I am happy to hear that (I corrected my error already). Some Hawaiians have their long form. Obama either does not or he hasn't let anyone see it. I read in another thread that he wrote in his book that he had a long form, but hasn't explained what happened to it after that.

[dforest]

I believe Obama is not a natural born citizen. That said, this will go nowhere, especially now.

[RummyChick]

“Uh- Keyes did run. Even attended debate(s)”

Uh, read my sentence. I know he ran. The question was when did he decide to run. Was it planned all along or a sudden move for another reason.

[palmer]

You asked for proof that Fact check Photo #5 is a forgery, look at the border, it's wrong for that document.

Thanks, finally! The border is not wrong for a 2007 document, and it matches other 2007 documents as shown in the first screenshot in Polarik's thread: http://polarik.blogtownhall.com/2008/08/22/update_factchecks_photos_of_obamas_paper_birth_certificate_proves,_once_and_for_all,_that_their_image_of_it_was_a_forgery!.thtml

The second screenshot in that thread compares BO's COLB to the 2002 deCosta COLB with Polarik's conclusion:

The fit of the PD COLB image is so much closer to the FactCheck image than a real COLB from the same time period, there can only be one conclusion: The Obama/Kos/FactCheck image was created from other COLB images, including the one from 2002, the PD COLB.

That is an incorrect conclusion. The border in the factcheck photos is closer to the first border he posted (the one with the blacked out name and details) than the second comparison (deCosta). No special tools or analysis are needed for that conclusion, an unbiased observer is all that is needed.

[palmer]

BTW guys, now that I have posted this diatribe here and particularly criticized the individuals involved, I am going to have to keep it here. I can't cross into threads in the rest of the forum and post anything on this topic (inviting attack). But there is one exception, if and when (and I think it's a big if) Polarik finally posts his final analysis which is supposed to address the factcheck photos, I will critique his analysis on that thread.

When I am then inevitably attacked with the usual picture spam from Polarik's defender (like Calpernia), I will not respond. I may respond to those posters here on this thread if I feel it is useful.

[Cacique]

Complete waste of time. We have bigger fish to fry. We lost an election, the people behind Obama are not going to let anything get in their way. We need to worry about regaining control of the GOP. We need to gear up to fight amnesty, and all the other garbage they intend to saddle us with.

This is a nonsense issue, too little too late.

[usmcobra]

It is wrong for that document when compared to others of the same vintage (2007) as well, not just when compared to DeCosta’s.

It’s muddled, it’s blurred, it’s misaligned, it is corrupted, it looks nothing like what we would could and should expect from a State or Federal Official document to which an official seal is stamped for the purposes of Identification.

It has none of the crispness of an official document printed for the sake of legality.

More than anything else that first of all gives it away as a forgery and a very bad one at that.

Remember first and foremost that it is supposed to be a “certificate” not some blank form run off on a copying machine, it is supposed to be as exact as the print and images on money because it is the legal proof of one’s birth and Obama’s lacks that clarity.

It jumps right out of the page and says to you “this cannot be anything but a forgery”!

Sure we can debate the individual elements until we are blue in the face on how they were made but it always comes back to the initial opinion of the document, it’s just too wrong to be right.

[bossmechanic]

If this issue is so unimportant, how come it’s attracted so many obvious demo/lib trolls? Rather then spending hours of time torturing nuances of these arguements and simply use your pull with the One to get his highness to allow access to his records? Then all of us would have something concrete to discuss. There is NO justification for hiding so much of his personal background - unless it is damaging. And you know that’s true.

[Grampa Dave]

A very smart young lady explained to me why so many women hated Sarah Palin: “They probably had abortions and didn’t want to be compared to Sarah.”

She is also a lurker on this board. Her insight to people who have gone insane over the birth certificate data issue and fight it constantly was: “These people probably have some problem with their birth data or could have!”

[Dubya-M-DeesWent2SyriaStupid!]

I agree I always thought the issue was nuts. The more I HEAR THGE MORE i see something needs resolved. So many people believe factcheck.org like they are non biased.

[HighlyOpinionated]

Citizenship in Indonesia is accepted due to Lolo Soetoro listing it on the two applications when Barry was placed in school. In Indonesia, a person MUST be a citizen in order to attend school. Lolo had no reason to lie about Barry’s citizenship. Lolo didn’t know Barry was going to run for office in the USofA. An adoption usually includes a changed citizenship to the citizenship of the adult who adopts.

Pondering on the situation logically (not my strong suit, actually)(and there are those who know this at FR), I have been correct about the adoption as has been proved.

More background information at http://theobamafile.com

And I think I’m close to understanding the “embarrassment” Obama would face if his Vault Birth Certificate were submitted. 1-Last name is not legally Obama; 2-No father listed so Mom was NOT married to Sr.; 3-Ethnicity chosen by his mother is Caucasian; 4-Born in another Country. Any or all of them would definitely embarrass Barry Obama.

And ne’er forget, Barry O thinks the Constitution of the USofA is “flawed.” So I’m sure he’d like to change it so that he can be the rightful Caliph . . . Potentate . . . King . . . President.

[KC Burke]

I don’t mind analysis of possible fringe and conspiracy issues. White Water and P. Jones were fring issues originally. I don’t read the Obama birth certificate threads generally for one reason — they are full of spammers that just post the same crap over and over again making the discussion impossible and making the site look like it is populated by idiots.

Some of these spammers are obviously not genuine.

I doubt the guy can produce a clean certificate and the crazier the hounding looks the more it helps make it look outside the national character.