Posted on 05/23/2008 10:12:33 AM PDT by LeGrande
All they have to do, to prove child abuse is do a comprehensive mapping of DNA of these children and their underage mothers.
I am convinced such evidence would demonstrate multi-generational, systemitized incest which is illegal and abusive.
The problem Rick, is too many people here are thinking with their hearts just like liberals do.
They aren’t thinking with their heads.
Whether the FLDS is polygamous or not, I would rather have 10000 of them as neighbors before I’d be comfortable having one person from the CPS of any state living in my neighborhood.
As somebody else explained, I guess there is no way to charge them if they don’t actually have real marriage licenses. Calling themselves polygamists is not enough to charge them even. They have to have the the real licenses.
In which case, there really is nothing that can be done unfortunately unless it is proven they abused the children.
I guess I didn’t quite understand the case. I just believed what the media had been saying....
The children did not have broken bones....
This place is a farm for breeding sex slaves. Simple as that.
Which, I guess carries a certain erotic charge.
The children are isolated and married off young, utterly dominated and confused as to their rights to live their own lives. The boys are abandoned by the side of the road when they become old enough to offer any kind of challenge to the horny old goats that run the place. Picture being the brother of one of these girls who is about to be bred by an old bull who is a relative several times over--
This case is hell to try to manage. The judges who think that there is no endangerment lack common sense. I feel for the people who finally tried to rescue these kids with the history of Waco in their minds--likely authorities have been trying to find an angle for years.
What you don't do is take the neighbor's kids as well from the whole community then leave the criminals to walk free. Which is exactly what CPS has done.
Right now only the children have been really punished. Only the children have had to face a judge in court, and not even their own hearings at that but instead of group hearing of all of them. That's not how we run trials in the USA.
The alleged criminals are still walking free on their ranch and can come and go anytime they want. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if more then a few have fled the State or maybe even the country. Not one has been arrested, not one charge has been filed.
Walking free men while the innocent children are being punished by CPS and Texas justice. That's not justice, that's a travesty.
I’m down with any individual rights that does no harm to you in any way. If a man wants the torture of having 3 wives, it’s none of your business to tell them they must live otherwise. It’s not my thing, but...
>>That is why they were removed, but since polygamy is illegal, the removal was justified on that grounds alone.<<
If that is the premise, then when are the CPS people going to take Muslim kids from their polygamous homes? Nope, don’t think so!
These people were preyed upon and then abused...by the state of Texas. It was the women and children who were forced from their homes, however you feel about FLDS, the sad fact is that these kids were used as pawns and surprise! surprise! IT WAS ILLEGAL.
"Right now only the children have been really punished. Only the children have had to face a judge in court, and not even their own hearings at that but instead of group hearing of all of them. That's not how we run trials in the USA. " AMEN !!!!!!
Yes, there’s this little matter of fruit from the poisoned tree where evidence gathered during an illegal search cannot be used. I think the doctrine still applies and may very well lead to guilty parties escaping prosecution this time.
If there is real evidence of child abuse, then the parties need to be prosecuted but the answer isn’t to destroy the organization because of some bad apples. We can’t even begin to touch NAMBLA for that very reason yet so many are advocating this group be, for all practical purposes, destroyed.
What I find distasteful in FR is so many women not using the (obviously outdated) notion that ALL people are considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
Nobody here has a clue what went on in the compound other than what the lying news media has said. I said it once and I will say it again. We don’t believe them 90% of the time when they report on just about anything else, why the hell are we believing them now?
Assertions were made by Texas CPS that did not hold up in Court.
I personally will go with what the Judges have decreed that have SEEN the evidence (or in this case, the lack thereof) and stay with that old antiquated idea that a Citizen of my country (who practices a religion that I do not agree with) has the RIGHT under our Constitutional form of government, to be considered INNOCENT until he/she is PROVEN guilty.
The mob had a set back yesterday in court. None of the sa's were on that thread either. Like garlic to a vampire.
Perception is everything apparently. Your perception of this apparently is clouding your opinion, and of course the morality of it is repulsive.
But, again, it’s not your business or mine. What the people in Texas did was to remove a lot of children that most likely were NOT abused, and left people who indeed might be criminals walking around.
As has been asked, where are the arrests and why haven’t they done so yet?
The crime as *I* see it was taking all those children from their mothers.
There was a reason I put the word cult into quotations. Because, anything can be called a cult. There is a definition of the word cult, but many people just call something that name to make it a negative connotation.
The POINT is, you can’t make “cults” illegal. Why? Simple. Even academic disciplines are “cultist” in many ways. So too are those of us who follow the principles of the Constitution - and therefore we might be considered “problematic” by those opposed to the Constitution (those whom believe it is a “living document”).
By the way, the usage of a word in quotations is normal in a discourse because you are identifying the word as the object of discussion, rather than attempting to obfuscate the meaning - which is what you’re doing when you use the word “cult” in a sentence.
You are taking only the negative connotation of the word as gospel, which, unfortunately for your argument, it is not.
>>>>>>>>”All they have to do, to prove child abuse is do a comprehensive mapping of DNA of these children and their underage mothers.
I am convinced such evidence would demonstrate multi-generational, systemitized incest which is illegal and abusive.”
Again emotion, not fact.
They already collected DNA evidence from the several hundred children and mothers/fathers. Guess what. Nothing.
“David J. Williams is repenting from a distance. Though he was earlier cast out of the Fundamentalist LDS Church, he still drove more than 1,200 miles from his home in Nevada to the Schleicher County Memorial Building to give a DNA sample.
“I have three beautiful sons that were forced from their mother,” he said Tuesday. “I am here to give all that I have to aid in the return of the children to their parents.”
Williams showed up alongside other FLDS members to undergo a cheek swab, be photographed and given a number in an effort to establish paternity for the 437 children seized from the YFZ Ranch.
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695272972,00.html
the government owns your children and can take them whenever they want. also, in the name of protecting their property, the government can kick down your doors anytime they want regardless of the worthless constitution. welcome to the united socialist states of america.
“removed on alleged child abuse”
alleged by a middle-aged obama democrat posing as a little girl on a telephone.
I imagine your opinion would change if it was your neighbor reporting you.
“comprehensive mapping of DNA”
great. will they be mapping my genes next because one of the guys at my church might have raped his daughter? How about if it was one of my neighbors... or someone the same color as me?
Yes.
The child abuse charges, being by far the most serious, are the one which should be most vigorously investigated.
Given that, I do not understand why some of the men from this sect/cult were not arrested on the day of the raid. The Rangers had allegedly been doing an undercover investigation for two years. Surley in that time they had developed a list of actual suspects? (if they DIDN’T actually have some real suspects then they DEFINITELY should not have been able to get a warrant issued by a judge). Yet, no adult males were detained; the men were allowed to leave on their own and in a lot of cases promptly fled the state. A horrible Cluster Foxtrot from start to finish.
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