Posted on 05/26/2007 1:49:34 PM PDT by Eurotwit
A few weeks ago – in between Hillary Clinton’s official entry into the presidential race and the first Republican primary debate of the cycle – the fiery online conservative forum Free Republic marked a decade in operation as one of the premier online forums for right-wing political discussion.
It also experienced one of the biggest internal battles to rock the site since the 2000 election of George W. Bush -- a tumultuous campaign year that nearly tore the site apart, as its founder and chief administrator first cleansed commenting ranks of Bush supporters, then, later, rallied to his support.
At the heart of the latest controversy: the fight over the conservative bona fides of Rudy Giuliani.
Over the past few weeks, chaos has reigned in the “Freeper” community as members sympathetic to the former mayor's candidacy claim to have suffered banishment from the site. They were victimized, they say, by a wave of purges designed to weed out any remaining support for the Giuliani campaign on the popular conservative web forum. Another significant chunk of commenters have migrated away from the controversial site over the action, according to a number of former site members and conservative bloggers who have been tracking the situation.
In a plaintive post on the blog “Sweetness & Light,” exiled commenter Steve Gilbert, who says he does not support the former mayor’s campaign, blasted the site’s new “anti-Giuliani, anti-abortion jihad.” Since George W. Bush was elected president, he wrote, “there haven’t been any large scale [Free Republic] purges to speak of – until now.”
The fight began one month ago, when site founder Jim Robinson posted an anti-Giuliani manifesto titled: “Giuliani as the GOP presidential nominee would be a dagger in the heart of the conservative movement.” Then the virtual ax started to swing. Longtime posters to the freewheeling discussion threads, used to serious no-holds-barred web etiquette, were still stunned by the intensity of the anti-Rudy activity; conservative blogs buzzed with the development.
“Jim Robinson has been going on a tear demonizing Rudy Giuliani, because Rudy (agreeing with the vast majority of Americans), is personally opposed to abortions on a moral level…” complained a user on the GOPUSA Web site. “Anyone who posts any support for Giuliani at the site, if it's at all forceful, will be banned.”
(“Normally, we don't allow complaints about other conservative forums,” chided the moderator, but “…because it is being discussed all over the Internet, I'll make an exception.”)
Just a few months ago, Rudy Giuliani placed second in an early Free Republic straw poll; now, his support on the site has been virtually eliminated. “After the ‘April Purge,’ I don't think there are any Rudybots left around here,” noted Free Republic commenter “upchuck” in one recent post. “And if there are, they're not posting pro-Rudy stuff :).”
The forums weren’t the only venue for the Free Republic’s new antagonism toward Mr. Giuliani, which coincided with a wave of comments expressing similar sentiments from other corners of the conservative movement. A few days after Mr. Giuliani’s equivocal Roe v. Wade comments at the Republican presidential debate on May 3, a new “STOP RUDY NOW News & Information Thread” was featured on the site, and a newly-created stand-alone category debuted via a link from the homepage: “The Giuliani Truth File.” (So far this campaign season, Mr. Giuliani is the only candidate – Republican or Democratic – to be singled out for that level of scrutiny from the Free Republic.)
Why Rudy? Why now? Some conservative bloggers and former commenters contacted for their view of the continuing controversy say they believe that site founder Jim Robinson holds ideologically middling Republicans like Mr. Giuliani responsible for the GOP’s congressional loss and current woes. (They asked that their names be kept out of this story for fear of antagonizing the famously frisky site regulars.)
Others claim that the former mayor’s top-tier status is spurring frantic site administrators into action. Finally, one popular theory holds that the Free Republic is secretly hoping for another Clinton presidency that would send its Alexa ratings soaring back to levels it hasn’t experienced since its halcyon days of the Clinton impeachment, when a since-soured relationship with blog pioneer Matt Drudge and overwhelming anti-Clinton sentiment in Republican ranks helped make Free Republic one of the hottest Web sites in the nation. It hasn't recovered that luster since the Bush administration took over.
“It’s not a conspiracy theory, it’s an observation,” said one blogger, who describes himself as a half-hearted Mitt Romney supporter. “They’ve still got a brand name that means something, but they’re not what they were in terms of real-world impact. A Hillary presidency would get them there.”
Robinson himself could not be reached for comment, but his original post laid out his case against Mr. Giuliani – a graphics-heavy presentation of some of the former mayor’s most damning moderate quotes in mainstream media venues, along with a color-coded report card tracking his less-than-doctrinaire positions on abortion, immigration, gays and guns.
Robinson, it should be noted, famously blasted George W. Bush’s presidential candidacy back in 2000, before a dramatic late-campaign about-face that saw him emerge as one of the GOP ticket’s biggest supporters. But whether or not Free Republic experiences a similar election-year shift this cycle, the site’s current campaign is spreading a dangerous primary-season meme of Rudy Giuliani as big-city liberal – and turning one of the most influential web forums in conservatism into an exclusive gathering place for those who share that view.
For starters, the post-primary support of Dubya came from not wanting Algore as POTUS. It was not a flip-flop, but the support for the last man standing close to conservatism in the final contest.
So here we are again in the primary season without an incumbent, and there is going to be a scrap over who gets the nod, and all their stances on all of the issues will be examined.
Many may be called, but most will be found wanting. Such is the nature of politics.
It is especially assured this will occur since the one really big weak spot in the current President's platform has been the issue of illegal immigration, one which we are seeing come to the fore.
Policy problems seen now in the campaign will surface later as law, so we had best better get what we want now (or at least as much as we can) in terms of a candidate.
Again we attempt to choose the seminal issues, and having defined them, many of us found Mr Giuliani's track record and previous stances unacceptable, despite eleventh hour pandering to all those 'billybobs' in flyover country (who are not as dumb as some prominent New Yorkers seem to think).
SO many Rudy supporters hit this site, saturating it with shrill proclamations of President Rudy, as if it was a 'done deal', and often shrilly shouted down attempts to point out Rudy's (very liberal by most standards) track record. How great the wailing and gnashing of teeth over 'Rudy bashing', (I can only imagine the garments rent in travail).
Funny, because the more I find out about Rudy, the less I think he is the man for the job.
Nor do I believe the oft repeated mantra that he is "the only one who can beat Hillary" (perhaps because he can steal liberals' votes from her).
As for 'no holds barred internet', those are not quite the rules here, this isn't DU, there are limits, and when posters get cybernetically 'in the site owners face' and demand to be zotted, I, for one cannot help but understand his willingness to comply with their demands.
All the snyde remarks are not missed, remaining supporters of Mr. Giuliani have been reasonably civil in comparison to the shrill who have found their own place on the web to sit around and convince each other of Mr. Giuliani's suitability.
While they are holding their vigil, waiting for the beattification of St. Rudy of Ground Zero, the rest of us are not, but instead are taking a wider view.
There are others more worthy, imho, and it is nice to be able to discuss them civilly without the intractable static.
As a transplanted Westerner I discovered food that is not meat and is not covered with red gravy, Italian for sauce.
Makes perfect sense that a conservative site would want to eliminate liberal debate "tactics". There is a preference for facts and logic over hysteria and attacks - no surprise.
I'm glad a line was drawn. I've been absolutely laser beamed by this kind of stuff for years when discussing another topic - it just kept getting worser and worser. Now it ain't so bad - can actually discuss. Thanks JR.
Okay. I do vaguely remember that. I’m betting that is a bet you were darn happy to lose. :-)
My taste buds are pretty eclectic. :-)
No, Michigan, the northern suburbs of Detroit.
Has anyone compiled the nasty, vile things posted to Jim that got the Rudybots banned?
Yes, those poor picked on Rudy supporters. Every time I posted anything to them about Duncan Hunter or just disagreeing with them about Rudy, all I got from them was grief. They are much like liberals as they believe they are right and will not tolerate dissenting opinions.
Personally, I like the absence of vitriol.
I think this is like...the coolest article ever(:
"Welcome to Free Republic! Free Republic is the premier online gathering place for independent, grass-roots conservatism on the web. We're working to roll back decades of governmental largesse, to root out political fraud and corruption, and to champion causes which further conservatism in America. And we always have fun doing it. Hoo-yah!
Jump right in! Most visitors to Free Republic are attracted to our very popular (and, warning: addictive) conservative news and discussion forum which can be found by clicking here or following any of the forum links in the sidebars.
Giuliani is not now, nor ever has been, A CONSERVATIVE!
And continuously lying about history and Reagan, just to make Rudy look better
(despite being proved wrong, over and over and over).
I agree with you but there is more about McCain than liberalism that got my ire up. He's just out there -in left field by himself - like Edwards kind of out there. And I don't believe he has America's best interests at heart.
Newt, though I like Newt and agree with most of his beliefs, is no match for Thompson or Hunter
Free Republic MENTIONED????This piece was ALL ABOUT Free Republic. And has anyone actually been banned for Pro-Giuliani propaganda, or just argued into the ground?
This piece was good, and unless the reporter got his facts wrong, it only serves as good “PR for FR” at least as far as its a site that will draw people AWAY from Giuliani. I am against Rudy for other reasons, which I find reprehensible: I just think he jumped too quickly into the whole new heady realm of security profiteering that his contact with 9-11 brought to him. I find it TOTALLY unseemly, and it undermines some other good moves he made, like giving the big check back to the Saudi “Prince”.
Me too. I see a real difference around the site.
Although, I've seen a bit of it coming from SOME of the Romney supporters, as I've opposed him in the same way I opposed Giuliani.
But even that is not the same. MOST of the Romney supporters are pretty civil, actually, most of the time. [Even if they are backing a lib ;-)]
I don’t know that this has really been whittled down to an exclusive club, but I know I’m more comfortable posting now that the most rabid liberals are gone. Thank you for maintaining standards.
The NY Observer is another Fish wrapper in the MSM.
” Personally, I like the absence of vitriol.”
Hmmm. The crevo threads haven’t changed much, tho. ;)
I’m on here every day but somehow managed to miss all the hubbub. Must not have been that earth shattering after all. I admit, I once leaned toward Rudy... oops wait a second, yep, I’m still here. Sorry, Rudy, but you’ve gone so far out on a limb that I’m rooting for Thompson to throw his hat in the ring.
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