Posted on 12/15/2006 7:22:32 PM PST by FarRockaway
To: The Republican Party
I am a Christian conservative or social conservative. I am Pro-Life. I vote.
Rudy Giuliani is pro-gay, pro-gun control, and pro-abortion.
For these reasons and others, I state very firmly that I will not vote for Rudy Giuliani for President of the United States under any circumstances.
Senator John McCain has waffled on human cloning, has supported experimentation on human embryos, and has attacked prominent Christian clergy because of the, "evil influence that they exercise." John McCain has said of Pro-Life voters, on a public broadcast radio show, that they are, "otherwise intelligent people who say that that's the only issue that will determine their vote." McCain told the San Francisco Chronicle, "I would not support repeal of Roe v. Wade."
For these reasons and others, I state very firmly that I will not vote for John McCain for President of the United States under any circumstances.
Sincerely,
Thank you for that. That disproves this whole fantasy. The claim is that *all* churches and *all* theologians think exactly the same thing - that Mormonism is a cult. Since the Methodists do not. The whole claim is disproven now.
And I have been posting about the Canadian border how KNOWN terrorist have come into America, through that border, for years. Don't bite my head off; we're on the same side. :-)
My pleasure. Facts matter and posting facts is what I generally do here. :-)
No, that's not the way it works in the adult world. *You* have made a degoratory claim about a religion and millions of people. And now *you* need to back it up. That's what honor is all about.
You said -- "I'd be interesting in a list of *all* Christian theologians and verifiable statements by them that they are saying the same thing as Walter Martin? :-)"
In the book, Kingdom of the Cults, there is an analysis done on the basis of the core essentials of the Christian faith. It's the thing that all the historic and traditional Christian churches have come to, over the centuries since the time of Jesus Christ.
The book basically comes down to the basic of the Christian faith (what you *have to have*) at the minimum, and then proceeds to do the comparison and analysis with the many other cults (which are listed there).
And so, the theologians referred to are going to be from these traditional churches -- and not the cult ones. And while many of these main, historic and traditional denominations do differ from one another in many practices and ways of worshipping and how they organize their individual churches -- they do not differ on the core essentials of Christianity.
It's at *these points* that you are going to get agreement across the board. It's what is considered *core* and *essential* -- the point at which you can "reduce no further" and still be "Christian".
And you do have wide and across the board agreement on them.
That's the situation.
Go to that book (get it at a library, if you will). Go to the part where these essentials are listed. Then write them down and go to some of these churches and talk to the pastors and get the information from them as to their agreement (or disagreement) with these core essentials. You'll find that "across-the-board" agreement.
That's what you can read about, that's what the many denominations can *come together* on -- this is their *common fellowship* of the Christian faith. They are all "in common" with one another -- on these things.
That's what makes the Mormon church off to the side -- as a cult. They don't come together with everyone else. Take a look at any book which shows these core essentials and analyses them in conjunction with any cult.
And if you find a book about cults -- Mormonism will probably be on the top of the list.
So, that is how they all agree with Walter Martin and what he wrote in the Kingdom of the Cults. And, of course, that also applies to the hundreds of other books out there about a number of cults.
Regards,
Star Traveler
OR Rudy/Hailey Barbour. ;)
Now THAT I could go for!
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...it doesn't appear that the Presbyterians view Mormons as belonging to a cult. That makes two now, who don't....Methodists and Presbyterians.
You said -- "Oh gee, there you go again - *the entire Christian establishment*?? Who, specifically are they? :-)"
Take your pick. You can choose any one of the standard, historic and mainline Christian churches. They all come together on the core issues of Christianity. I mentioned mine for one. They are the Southern Baptist Convention. You can start with them, if you wish.
Go to the Presbyterians next and check them out. Go to the Lutherans, if you will -- and a whole host of other ones. They all have the core essentials of the Christian faith, in common, as espoused in the Bible, the Word of God, and affirmed by Jesus Christ (in word and deed).
Regards,
Star Traveler
Thanks for that! That is the claim that star traveler is making - that every single, solitary church and theologian states that Moromonisn is a cult. And so that is being shown to be a lie.
Does it matter? Well, if you ask me - we all believe some pretty wild things :-) But to label a religion in such a derogatory way - I think *does* matter - in the sense that - as you imply - what is the point? Why would someone feel the need to trash millions of people? Why would someone feel the need to label people by race? or by gender? (which I also sadly saw on this thread). I wouldn't want people confusing *conservatism* or the GOP with people like star traveler.
And so in that sense it matters.
That's a great ticket! :-)
:D
Rudy/Barbour "Serious Men, Serious Times..." '08
Presbyterians and Latter-day Saints
Thank you! Very important message there.
I'm pulling for a Rick Santorum/Newt Gingrich ticket myself
however i could support Rudy as along as he tunes down his views on Gun's and Gays
Whether they are a "cult" or not....they are good Republicans we NEED THEM!!
btw, I would have to do some research to find out if most denominations believe Mormon's to be in a "cult". I don't THINK so .....but I could be wrong. I've gone to the Lutheran, Methodist and Epis. churches and it's never come up!
You said -- "You can't name any other book nor RESPECTED source."
I could; I just don't want to do your work for you. You should do that, if you really want to know.
It's not hidden; it's not a secret; it's well known. It simply takes you searching for that topic and researching the Christian faith and the core essentials and comparing that over and against any other cult. You'll see the differences.
I see no reason to do work for someone else who may be too lazy to do it themselves. I presume you're not too lazy to do that...
Regards,
Star Traveler
P.S. -- If your searching skills are that bad that you can't do it yourself..., I'll do it for you. Just let me know that you're not being too lazy and you just can't find any titles -- and I'll produce a few for you to read.
Now THAT is an unbeatable ticket and a wonderful campaign slogan!
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