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No Giuliani, No McCain
Petition Online ^ | Dec. 14, 2006 | Andrew Longman

Posted on 12/15/2006 7:22:32 PM PST by FarRockaway

To: The Republican Party

I am a Christian conservative or social conservative. I am Pro-Life. I vote.

Rudy Giuliani is pro-gay, pro-gun control, and pro-abortion.

For these reasons and others, I state very firmly that I will not vote for Rudy Giuliani for President of the United States under any circumstances.

Senator John McCain has waffled on human cloning, has supported experimentation on human embryos, and has attacked prominent Christian clergy because of the, "evil influence that they exercise." John McCain has said of Pro-Life voters, on a public broadcast radio show, that they are, "otherwise intelligent people who say that that's the only issue that will determine their vote." McCain told the San Francisco Chronicle, "I would not support repeal of Roe v. Wade."

For these reasons and others, I state very firmly that I will not vote for John McCain for President of the United States under any circumstances.

Sincerely,


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: 100percenters; giuliani; mccain; nowaymccain; runjohnrun; tancredo; traitorjohn
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To: Star Traveler
the entire Christian establishment backs up Walter Martin in what he said

I'll call your bluff. Prove it.

661 posted on 12/16/2006 12:49:08 AM PST by Mojave
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To: FarRockaway

Not many conservatives are happy with todays Republican party to be sure. A lot stayed home in the last election. I decided to vote at the last moment but held my nose and washed my hands very carefully after pulling the R lever.

Rudy and McCain will be the last straw for many base type voters.

The threat used by some that staying home will elect the beast is wearing thin with me and a lot of other voters.

It's like being offered a choice of jummping off a 10 story building or a 20 story one.


662 posted on 12/16/2006 12:50:22 AM PST by rrrod
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To: Star Traveler

Really doesn't matter if everyone realizes that or not. Some care, some don't. That's the way of the world. Good night.


663 posted on 12/16/2006 12:50:29 AM PST by bonfire
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To: Star Traveler
Well, it's amazing that all the other Christian theologians are telling the same lies as Walter Martin does about the Mormons then. That's a very curious state of affairs...

*all* other Christian theologians? *All* other? Is this truly the level of your thinking? I wonder how old you are? Do you also look at the world as black vs white?? us vs them? Do you use the words always & never quite a bit?

I'd be interesting in a list of *all* Christian theologians and verifiable statements by them that they are saying the same thing as Walter Martin? :-)

664 posted on 12/16/2006 12:50:46 AM PST by Sunsong
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To: Mojave

Let's cut right down to the matter at hand.

Walter Martin says that the Mormon church is not a Christian church and is a cult. The rest of established Christianity (i.e., historic and mainline Christianity) agrees with Walter Martin.

Hence -- The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is not a Christian church and does not teach the Christian faith or its tenets.

That's the issue at hand, which was brought up, way back in this thread.

You can hammer away at all sorts of sideline issues and it doesn't change the fact that what is printed in the book "The Kingdom of the Cults" is true and factual and is used as an authoritative book in the Christian church.

Those who don't want to use it and who disparage it -- are from the *cults* themselves.

That makes clear where this argument is coming from...

Regards,
Star Traveler


665 posted on 12/16/2006 12:53:00 AM PST by Star Traveler
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To: Star Traveler
And the fact remains -- that the entire Christian establishment backs up Walter Martin in what he said -- so then, that throws into question who is protesting that he is a kook.

Oh gee, there you go again - *the entire Christian establishment*?? Who, specifically are they? :-)

666 posted on 12/16/2006 12:53:12 AM PST by Sunsong
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To: Mojave

You said -- "That Star Traveler would stoop to using such a discredited source is sad."

That anyone would dismiss the entirety of the Christian Church and all of the established and respected theologians, and their hundreds of books (if not thousands) in regards to the cults (e.g. Mormonism) -- is doubly sad.

I'll raise you one cult...

Regards,
Star Traveler


667 posted on 12/16/2006 12:55:14 AM PST by Star Traveler
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To: Star Traveler
You can't name any other book nor RESPECTED source.

Your beloved LIAR, also claims that Hinduism and Buddhism are cults. What other religions does he call CULTS? Are Catholics members of a cult, too?

The Puritans left England because they denied that THE CHURCH OF ENGLAND was correct and publicly went after it and its head, James, the then King of England.

Once settled in America, they refused to allow Quakers and other non-Congos to practice their brand of religion. That's part of the How and WHY Rhode Island came to be; BTW.

They Cotton Mather, et al, would NEVER have allowed YOU to be a Baptist of ANY stripe and live within the confines of the then Massachusetts.

668 posted on 12/16/2006 12:56:11 AM PST by nopardons
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To: Star Traveler
Walter Martin says that the Mormon church is not a Christian church and is a cult. The rest of established Christianity (i.e., historic and mainline Christianity) agrees with Walter Martin.

Asking again:

Who, exactly, is the *rest of established Christianity*?

Who, exactly, is *mainline* Christianity?

669 posted on 12/16/2006 12:56:26 AM PST by Sunsong
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To: Star Traveler
That anyone would dismiss the entirety of the Christian Church and all of the established and respected theologians, and their hundreds of books (if not thousands) in regards to the cults (e.g. Mormonism) -- is doubly sad.

Oh now it's *the entirety* of the Christian Church? :-) and *all* of the *established* and **respected* theologians (respected is a new adjective) Respected by who, specifically?

How old are you, btw?

670 posted on 12/16/2006 12:59:05 AM PST by Sunsong
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To: Star Traveler
Let's cut right down to the matter at hand.

Yes, let's do that. Your source has been repeatedly proven to be a liar and a fraud with numerous cites, quotes and links posted on this thread. You haven't managed to refute any of them.

671 posted on 12/16/2006 12:59:48 AM PST by Mojave
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To: Sunsong

You said -- "I just looked up cult in a pocked dictionary - and it described it as faddish devotion. Are you using a dictionary definition? Do you think that Buddhism which is older that Christianity is faddish?"

I pointed out, a long while back in this discussion, that *cult* is a Christian term and a Christian definition -- and it is separate from the secular term to that effect (or the "newspaper term").

In this instance, we're talking "theology" -- as to who adheres to the historic and foundational Christian faith -- in what the Bible espouses and what the standard Christian denominations affirm. I already made that clear.

In Christian terms -- *anything* that departs from the core and standard beliefs (which are considered *essential*) is a *cult*.

That applies to Mormonism (and, of course, to many others, too).

There's nothing "new" here -- although it may be unfamiliar to a lot of people.

Regards,
Star Traveler


672 posted on 12/16/2006 1:00:10 AM PST by Star Traveler
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To: Star Traveler
You need to read the FACTS about old Walter, the renowned liar and fraud.

The Southern Baptist Convention, which is where I got some of my info on him, disavows him!

Try reading the posts about him, that have been posted to this thread. Facts matter; really they do.

BTW, there is a divergence of beliefs amongst ALL Christian sects.

673 posted on 12/16/2006 1:02:05 AM PST by nopardons
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To: All

Star Traveler is correct in that no major (or minor that I know of) Christian denomination redognizes The Church of the Latter Day Saints or any other branch of Mormon as "Christian".

Now......Star Traveler, you can stop spamming this thread.


674 posted on 12/16/2006 1:02:37 AM PST by bonfire
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To: Sunsong
Oh now it's *the entirety* of the Christian Church?

Most of whom have never even heard of that long dead radio charlatan.

675 posted on 12/16/2006 1:03:20 AM PST by Mojave
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To: bonfire

reCognizes.


676 posted on 12/16/2006 1:03:30 AM PST by bonfire
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To: Star Traveler
You are still spamming, I see. STOP IT!

No, I am NOT "spamming", since I am NOT posting the same thing to you and to others, as you are doing, over and over again.

677 posted on 12/16/2006 1:03:32 AM PST by nopardons
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To: nopardons
The Southern Baptist Convention, which is where I got some of my info on him, disavows him!

Well, er, uh, then the Southern Baptist Convention must be a cult too!

/sarcasm

678 posted on 12/16/2006 1:04:52 AM PST by Mojave
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To: Mojave

You said -- "The fraud's lies were laughed out of court."

I'll guarantee you -- without a doubt -- that the facts in the book "The Kingdom of the Cults" -- are laughed out of *no Christian churches* -- but are taken very seriously.

Why are these facts taken very seriously -- as they are written in this book (and many other books, too)? Well, because it accords *exactly* with the historic Christian faith -- which causes all Christian denominations to be *bound together* as a "unity" on the core essentials of the faith.

It's no laughing matter for them.

BUT -- for the sake of levity -- here, since you bring it up... some do get a kick out of the idea that the Mormons teach -- that Jesus Christ is the brother of Satan.

That's just for some levity for those who are wanting a quick laugh...

Regards,
Star Traveler

P.S. -- just in case someone doesn't know -- this would be "anathema" to the Christian church to say that (about Satan and Jesus Christ), in other word, they would be almost apoplectic... :-)


679 posted on 12/16/2006 1:05:43 AM PST by Star Traveler
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To: bonfire
One VERY intensive year, plus a bunch of years attendance of Sunday school.

We too had to write an essay; it was judged not only on what we knew, but also on grammar, vocabulary, spelling, and punctuation. That exam was harder than the SAT, when the SAT really MEANT something. LOL

680 posted on 12/16/2006 1:06:29 AM PST by nopardons
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