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Everyone be nice.
1 posted on 08/21/2006 6:57:28 AM PDT by PatrickHenry
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To: VadeRetro; Junior; longshadow; RadioAstronomer; Doctor Stochastic; js1138; Shryke; RightWhale; ...
Evolution Ping

The List-O-Links
A conservative, pro-evolution science list, now with over 390 names.
See the list's explanation, then FReepmail to be added or dropped.
To assist beginners: But it's "just a theory", Evo-Troll's Toolkit,
and How to argue against a scientific theory.

2 posted on 08/21/2006 6:58:31 AM PDT by PatrickHenry (Everything is blasphemy to somebody.)
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To: PatrickHenry
Excellent primer.

Someone send a copy to Ann Coulter so she can stop making a fool out of herself.

3 posted on 08/21/2006 7:08:43 AM PDT by Rudder
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To: PatrickHenry

The genetec bottleneck you describe does not need to be caused by environmental change. It can result from migration or scattering of seeds to a new and isolated location.


5 posted on 08/21/2006 7:18:23 AM PDT by js1138 (Well I say there are some things we don't want to know! Important things!")
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To: PatrickHenry
Over great periods of time, depending on environmental factors and the occurrence of mutations, a separate group can (if it doesn't go extinct) evolve into a new species;

And then Tinker Bell lived hapily ever after.

ML/NJ

6 posted on 08/21/2006 7:43:47 AM PDT by ml/nj
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To: PatrickHenry

There is a guy in a class I take who loves to stand up and spew this kind of stuff. It's always mind-numbing to listen to him. With him loving his own intellect and his vocabulary and the sound of his own voice, he cares not that most of the people in the class were lost at the first sentence.
You guys should get together.


8 posted on 08/21/2006 7:48:42 AM PDT by kittykat718 (Me-ow)
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To: PatrickHenry

I didn't see Jack Nicholson mentioned anywhere. ;)


12 posted on 08/21/2006 8:41:52 AM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: PatrickHenry

Great piece! A nice, easy-to-understand summary of how evolution works.


14 posted on 08/21/2006 8:55:31 AM PDT by Dante Alighieri
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To: PatrickHenry

Beautiful, elegant explanation of a difficult concept for some people.... thank you.


15 posted on 08/21/2006 9:05:04 AM PDT by schwing_wifey (Americans fat??? Have you seen European tourists lately????? PST +9hours)
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To: PatrickHenry

bttt


16 posted on 08/21/2006 9:07:07 AM PDT by King Prout (many complain I am overly literal... this would not be a problem if fewer people were under-precise)
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To: PatrickHenry
Ultimately this 5 point spread is sourced to the activities of a "demigod" identified as "nature's filter".

Gotta' do better than that if you want to knock down the

deus ex machina folks who want you to believe "God did it" in a New York second.

Several of the points make no sense in light of what has been found regarding the human genome, "jumping genes", and so forth.

19 posted on 08/21/2006 9:40:05 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: PatrickHenry
I understand that the Grand Master at DarwinCentral™ was reviewing an early draft of your essay during the recent Annual DarwinCentral™ Ball and Symposium in the Galapagos Islands, and was very impressed by your efforts. Has he mentioned any meritorious commendation or other honorarium that he intends to bestow upon you for this fine work?
20 posted on 08/21/2006 9:46:42 AM PDT by longshadow (FReeper #405, entering his ninth year of ignoring nitwits, nutcases, and recycled newbies)
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To: PatrickHenry
This turned out very well. Kudos!

No doubt it will prove very instructive and will end the debate here.

22 posted on 08/21/2006 9:48:33 AM PDT by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: PatrickHenry

Evolution is amazing, I wonder who invented it?


23 posted on 08/21/2006 9:51:01 AM PDT by Protagoras ("Minimum-wage laws are one of the most powerful tools in the arsenal of racists." - Walter Williams)
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To: PatrickHenry

In the SBR already?


24 posted on 08/21/2006 9:51:55 AM PDT by LibertarianSchmoe ("...yeah, but, that's different!" - mating call of the North American Ten-Toed Hypocrite)
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To: PatrickHenry

Well written and well reasoned.

Of course, you could invent a time machine, drag the luddites back in time and show them, replete with charts and graphs and 8 by 10 glossies with circles and arows on the back, and they'd still refuse to understand.

Of course we are instructed to be kind to those whose faith is so weak.


40 posted on 08/21/2006 11:22:08 AM PDT by MeanWestTexan (Kol Hakavod Lezahal)
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To: PatrickHenry
Well done, Sir: very succinct, and lapidary in its clarity.

Now, consider just how long, tedious and melancholy would be a catalogue of all the strawmen charges leveled by some the Creationist/ID advocates in this very forum, but which in fact have no place in ToE. I need not offer a comprehensive list (such would be too dreary), but highlight a few salient points which are not (unfounded assertions by its opponents notwithstanding) and never have been part of the Theory of Evolution, to wit:

1. ToE is mute on the subject of the origins of life. That is the domain of abogenesis, which has indeed some fascinating conjectures and hypotheses, but to date no compelling theories of the stature of ToE.

2. ToE is entirely mute on the subject of the existence or nature of any diety or dieties. Scientists who affirm ToE (which is to say, the absolute majority, particularly in the life sciences) include adherents of every major religion and every shade of agnosticism in addition to those who hold no belief in a supernatural diety.

3. ToE is entirely mute on all subjects of morality, it does not provide nor purport to provide any foundation or justification for any human behaviour, not because it is 'evil' or even 'morally neutral,' but because morality is not a subject of science. Scientists, like everyone else, seek their moral codes and spiritual guidance outside the domain of science.

43 posted on 08/21/2006 1:58:40 PM PDT by ToryHeartland
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To: PatrickHenry
Follow on point to my previous post: could an advocate of ID (particularly such as try to assure me that ID is not Creationism) draft a similar five-point summation of the principles of ID? And I don't mean five criticisms of ToE, or five quibbles over specific data points, I mean a five-point explanation of ID's account for the diversity of living organisms on this planet, along the lines you have done here for ToE? The five points must cover the same range as PH's post here, and be consistent with all the data points.

I have never seen an ID'er attempt such a thing. I do not believe such a thing could be done.

Anyone care to take on the challenge?

46 posted on 08/21/2006 2:09:16 PM PDT by ToryHeartland
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To: PatrickHenry
How is species being defined here (Dobzhansky's definition or another)?

And are there any instances of observed speciation (minus polyploidy and/or hybridization...certainly not in fruit flies, primrose, finches, maize, antibiotic resistant bacteria and etc.)?

51 posted on 08/21/2006 3:12:20 PM PDT by pby
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To: PatrickHenry
1. In every generation, some individuals of a species fail to reproduce. Whether due to biological inadequacy or other mishap, their genetic material is dropped from the species' gene pool.

Wrong in the very first statement. Only genetic material unique to that individual(mutated genetic stuff only) disappears from the gene pool. After all, the non-reproducing individual got his/her/its genetic material from his/her/its parents. No "self-respecting" Darwinian posits the theory that genetic material is miracled into an individual.(just practicing the art of Darwinian mind-reading/speaking for others)

60 posted on 08/21/2006 9:04:45 PM PDT by AndrewC
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To: PatrickHenry
My layman translation is even easier for ordinary minds to understand.

Individuals don't evolve - populations do.
From within a population, individuals reproduce.
Every individual is different from all others.
Some individuals reproduce more prolifically than others due to a combination of both their individual difference and their individual ability to adapt to circumstantial conditions and changes in their environment.
Over many generations, a population evolves as a result of adaptation to this process of individual reproduction, variation, and natural selection.
The gradual changes include mutational genetic drift of the whole population as well as physical adaptations.
Whenever circumstances cause a segment of a population to be isolated from the main breeding pool, each individual group will continue to adapt to different environmental pressures in different ways.
The smaller splinter group usually feels greater evolutionary pressure due to the combination of smaller gene pool and greater likelihood of being forced to adapt to different climate, food source, and predator pressures while the larger main group tends to have the greater gene pool and more familiar environment.
If the two groups stay separated long enough, the genetic mutations will affect one or both of the groups to the point that they are no longer capable of cross breeding should they ever come back into contact with one another.
Once this occurs, they are two different species and there is nothing to stop them from gradually evolving more differently over the millenniums.

63 posted on 08/21/2006 11:47:30 PM PDT by shuckmaster (An oak tree is an acorns way of making more acorns)
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