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Probing Question: What happened before the Big Bang?
Pennsylvania State University ^ | 03 August 2006 | Barbara Kennedy

Posted on 08/04/2006 4:26:21 AM PDT by PatrickHenry

The question of what happened before the Big Bang long has frustrated cosmologists, both amateur and professional.

Though Einstein's theory of general relativity does an excellent job of describing the universe almost back to its beginning, near the Big Bang matter becomes so dense that relativity breaks down, says Penn State physicist Abhay Ashtekar. "Beyond that point, we need to apply quantum tools that were not available to Einstein."

Now Ashtekar and two of his post-doctoral researchers, Tomasz Pawlowski and Parmpreet Singh, have done just that. Using a theory called loop quantum gravity, they have developed a mathematical model that skates right up to the Big Bang -- and steps through it. On the other side, Ashtekar says, exists another universe with space-time geometry similar to our own, except that instead of expanding, it is shrinking. "In place of a classical Big Bang, there is in fact a quantum Bounce," he says.

Loop quantum gravity, one of the leading approaches to the unification of general relativity with quantum physics, was pioneered at the Institute of Gravitational Physics and Geometry at Penn State, which Ashtekar directs. The theory posits that space-time geometry itself has a discrete "atomic" structure, Ashtekar explains. Instead of the familiar space-time continuum, the fabric of space is made up of one-dimensional quantum threads. Near the Big Bang, this fabric is violently torn, and these quantum properties cause gravity to become repulsive, rather than attractive.

While the idea of another universe existing prior to the Big Bang has been proposed before, he adds, this is the first mathematical description that systematically establishes its existence and deduces its space-time geometry.

"Our initial work assumes a homogenous model of our universe," Ashtekar acknowledges. "However, it has given us confidence in the underlying ideas of loop quantum gravity. We will continue to refine the model to better portray the universe as we know it and to better understand the features of quantum gravity."

***

Abhay Ashtekar is holder of the Eberly family chair in physics and director of the Institute for Gravitational Physics and Geometry in the Eberly College of Science. He can be reached at ava1@psu.edu.

The finding reported above was published in Physical Review Letters in May 2006. The research was sponsored by the National Science Foundation, Alexander von Humboldt Foundation, and the Penn State Eberly College of Science.


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: bewareofluddites; bigbang; bloodbath; cosmology; fakeatheist; fascistfrannie; generalchat; genesisidolater; goddooditamen; idiotswithgrants; juniorstantrum; origins; phpap; prematurepanspermia; runningwolfspout; stringtheory
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To: pageonetoo

Trolling?

Do you claim to understand God?

It's a simple question, please try to answer it and quit the personal atacks.


381 posted on 08/05/2006 12:52:19 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: PatrickHenry
"Theology is very different. Change is not desired, and it's actively discouraged."

Change makes them fallible, that's anathema to dogma, and diminishes the Church's power.

382 posted on 08/05/2006 12:56:50 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez

Narcissistic Personality Disorder



Category

Personality Disorders



Etiology

Like most personality disorders, there are many factors that may contribute to the development of symptoms. Because the symptoms are long lasting, the idea that symptoms begin to emerge in childhood or at least adolescence is well accepted. The negative consequences of such symptoms, however, may not show themselves until adulthood.



Symptoms

The symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder revolve around a pattern of grandiosity, need for admiration, and sense of entitlement. Often individuals feel overly important and will exaggerate achievements and will accept, and often demand, praise and admiration despite worthy achievements. They may be overwhelmed with fantasies involving unlimited success, power, love, or beauty and feel that they can only be understood by others who are, like them, superior in some aspect of life.



There is a sense of entitlement, of being more deserving than others based solely on their superiority. These symptoms, however, are a result of an underlying sense of inferiority and are often seen as overcompensation. Because of this, they are often envious and even angry of others who have more, receive more respect or attention, or otherwise steal away the spotlight.



Treatment

Treatment for this disorder is very rarely sought. There is a limited amount of insight into the symptoms, and the negative consequences are often blamed on society. In this sense, treatment options are limited. Some research has found long term insight oriented therapy to be effective, but getting the individual to commit to this treatment is a major obstacle.



Prognosis

Prognosis is limited and based mainly on the individual's ability to recognize their underlying inferiority and decreased sense of self worth. With insight and long term therapy, the symptoms can be reduced in both number and intensity.

http://allpsych.com/disorders/personality/narcissism.html


383 posted on 08/05/2006 12:58:48 PM PDT by pageonetoo (You'll spot their posts soon enough!)
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To: HayekRocks
He was a diocesan priest.

One Big Bang immaculate conception is just as good as another, Monsignor.

But just like the Big Bang, evolutionary theory is based on an appeal to false authority... the theory of evolution is rooted entirely in a premise that the origin of life is on the Earth. Logically, we know this is not the case at all since the Earth is not of its own origin...

If creationists believe in a flying spaghetti monster as the mocking bird evolutionists will squawk, then the evolutionists must believe in a boiling pot of primordial spaghetti sauce... both are appeals to false authority, which is an informal fallacy of logic...

384 posted on 08/05/2006 1:00:12 PM PDT by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: Sir Francis Dashwood
"But just like the Big Bang, evolutionary theory is based on an appeal to false authority... "

What appeal to authority is the theory of evolution based on?

"the theory of evolution is rooted entirely in a premise that the origin of life is on the Earth."

The theory of evolution is completely unconcerned where life started. It may have started in a different galaxy, or it may have started here. The ToE would not be affected. The origins of life are not a part of the ToE, never have been.

"Logically, we know this is not the case at all since the Earth is not of its own origin..."

But that is irrelevant, logically speaking. The constituent particles of the Earth can have originated elsewhere (they did) and that doesn't change the fact that the Earth didn't exist before those particles formed the Earth. The particles could be 10 billion years old when they formed the Earth, the Earth would still be brand new when it was formed. Just as you don't mark your age by how old the atoms that make your body are (far older than you are), you can't say the Earth is older than it's time of formation. If you wish to say that everything on Earth was at one time *stardust*, then be sure you realize that that is a metaphor. The Earth isn't stardust anymore.

Life could very well indeed have formed on Earth. There is no fallacy.
385 posted on 08/05/2006 1:15:36 PM PDT by CarolinaGuitarman (Gas up your tanks!!)
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To: sirchtruth
Ok, how do we know it "breaks" down, and what the conditions were of the BB?

Because spacetime curvature goes to infinity, and our current models can't cope with this.

If you're interested in singularities you might read Kip Thorpe's Black Holes and Time Warps. It's very interesting and accessible. Of course this is chiefly about black holes and the Big Bang was more like a white hole if anything, but it gives you some idea why we can't really say much about the nature of a singularity.

386 posted on 08/05/2006 1:23:29 PM PDT by ahayes ("If intelligent design evolved from creationism, then why are there still creationists?"--Quark2005)
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To: CarolinaGuitarman

marxist troll place marker...


387 posted on 08/05/2006 1:30:34 PM PDT by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: Sir Francis Dashwood

That didn't answer my points.


388 posted on 08/05/2006 1:31:18 PM PDT by CarolinaGuitarman (Gas up your tanks!!)
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To: CarolinaGuitarman

Drop it. Drop it now!


389 posted on 08/05/2006 1:34:31 PM PDT by PatrickHenry (Everything is blasphemy to somebody.)
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Comment #390 Removed by Moderator

To: pageonetoo
Do you look at an elephant cow and get an erection?

You have some rather unusual fixations. Instead of FR, you might want to mosey on over to a website that caters to your particular fetish.

391 posted on 08/05/2006 1:44:10 PM PDT by tortoise
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To: Sir Francis Dashwood

That still doesn't answer my points.


392 posted on 08/05/2006 1:48:00 PM PDT by CarolinaGuitarman (Gas up your tanks!!)
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To: pageonetoo
Do you look at an elephant cow and get an erection?

How'd you guess? :-(
393 posted on 08/05/2006 1:48:37 PM PDT by Seamoth (Kool-aid is the most addictive and destructive drug of them all.)
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To: Sir Francis Dashwood

Knock it off.


394 posted on 08/05/2006 1:49:51 PM PDT by Admin Moderator
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To: Admin Moderator

Bless you!


395 posted on 08/05/2006 1:50:27 PM PDT by PatrickHenry (Everything is blasphemy to somebody.)
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Abandoning thread Placemarker
396 posted on 08/05/2006 1:53:05 PM PDT by CarolinaGuitarman (Now reading "Benjamin Franklin" by Edmund S. Morgan)
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To: Admin Moderator; Jim Robinson

Maybe you should put this thread in the smokey back room... where it belongs... or, at least look at a few other places on it where some questionable personalities left similiar items...


397 posted on 08/05/2006 2:01:31 PM PDT by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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fruit of a bitter spirit placemarker


398 posted on 08/05/2006 2:18:29 PM PDT by King Prout (many complain I am overly literal... this would not be a problem if fewer people were under-precise)
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To: King Prout

"PUI," (Posting Under the Influence); second infraction....


399 posted on 08/05/2006 2:28:03 PM PDT by longshadow (FReeper #405, entering his ninth year of ignoring nitwits, nutcases, and recycled newbies)
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To: longshadow

400


400 posted on 08/05/2006 2:29:01 PM PDT by PatrickHenry (Everything is blasphemy to somebody.)
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