Evolution's bottom line

National Center for Science Education ^ | 12 May 2006 | Staff

[PatrickHenry]

In his op-ed "Evolution's bottom line," published in The New York Times (May 12, 2006), Holden Thorp emphasizes the practical applications of evolution, writing, "creationism has no commercial application. Evolution does," and citing several specific examples.

In places where evolution education is undermined, he argues, it isn't only students who will be the poorer for it: "Will Mom or Dad Scientist want to live somewhere where their children are less likely to learn evolution?" He concludes, "Where science gets done is where wealth gets created, so places that decide to put stickers on their textbooks or change the definition of science have decided, perhaps unknowingly, not to go to the innovation party of the future. Maybe that's fine for the grownups who'd rather stay home, but it seems like a raw deal for the 14-year-old girl in Topeka who might have gone on to find a cure for resistant infections if only she had been taught evolution in high school."

Thorp is chairman of the chemistry department at the University of North Carolina.

[RunningWolf]

Well Havoc, yet once again they have been successful in steering the focus away from that he or no other evo can bring an argument of substance, nor true hard, or real evo-evidence to the forum.

Wolf

[mjolnir]

I hear you--- fair enough!

[freedumb2003]

Why then you seem to be blind to the anti-catholic, ant-christian bigotry that constantly flows out of the evo side.

Please provide specific references, with proper context.

The vitrol comes from Creos who suggest that because some groups in the past have supported TToE, the followers must be evil (the lowest form of the Guilt By Association fallacy).

And when you get (properly) nailed dead center for it, you run.

[freedumb2003]

That's not a request, it is a demand.

That has to be one of the funniest posts I have ever seen. It sounds like the rhptoric you see at DU.

[Virginia-American]

Someone should translate "Hank" into Arabic.

[andysandmikesmom]

placemarker

[js1138]

"I demand that I may or may not be Vroomfondel!"

[mjolnir]

So what do you guys think of this? http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/May05/selfrep.ws.html

Will we see "the age of spiritual machines" soon, the way Ray Kurzweil predicts? Will machines usinmg the ability to self-replicate learn how to make themselves evolve? http://livedigital.com/content/145986/u35584 (yeah--- I don't just cartoonishly caricature opposing positions--- I actually like cartoons.

Do you think such machines could attain conscious thought?

[FOG724]

Yes! To keep the pseudo science crap out of the classrooms.

Then how will they teach environmentalism and global warming?

[freedumb2003]

"We don't demand solid facts! What we demand is a total absence of solid facts!"

(LOL)

[Oztrich Boy]

"Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends! Well I say there are some things we don't want to know! Important things!"

[RunningWolf]

Well as the other evos, I see you have no argument of substance, nor can you bring true hard, or real evo-evidence to the forum. But you are making an attempt to steer the focus away from that.

What to you is 'nailed dead center' carries all the accuracy and intensity of a toddler swinging her throw toy around.


Wolf

[sully777]

Applications of evolution? I assume he mentioned naziism, communism, and eugenics programs?

---

I will address the last point--eugenics: Evolution was not the first to address the idea of eugenics--the movement devoted to improving the human species by controlling heredity. To wit:

---

"The Angel of God said...he [Ishmael and his descendants] shall be a wild ass of a man; his hand against all, and the hand of everyone against him, and he shall live before [literally against/counter/subversively/rebeliously] all his brothers..." (Gen 16:12).

"As it is written, Jacob I have loved, but Esau [tradition says Esau married into Ishmael's lineage] I have hated." (Rom 9:13; cf Mal 1:2-3).

"...Thus sayeth the Lord concerning Edom [aka Esau et al], '...the House of Jacob shall be a fire, the House of Joseph shall be a flame; but the House of Esau shall be stubble; they shall kindle them and devour them, and no survivor shall remain of the House of Esau' For the Lord has spoken..."(Ob 1, 18).

"What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I have mercy and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion...therefore he has mercy on whom he wills and whom he wills he hardens..." (Rom 9:14-15, 18 cf. Ex.33:19).

"...you will blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven..."(Deut 25:19).

"...And you shall destroy all the peoples [Listed among the peoples were: Hittites, Amalekites, Amorites, Jebusites, Philistines (aka Phoneceans/Eastern Greeks) even tribal relations such as the Midianites, Aramites and Moabites if they got in the way]...your eye shall have no pity on them..."(Deut 7:16).

"...And they warred against the Midianites, just as the Lord commanded Moses, and they killed all the males...and Isreal took all the women...the little ones...captive...and burnt all the cities...[now kill every woman]...every male child, and every female [not a virgin]... (Num 31:7, 9-10, 15, 17-18).

"One of them, a prophet of their own, said, 'Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.' This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them [Cretans] sharply, that they may be sound in faith..." (Titus 1:12).

"...all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, all ate the same spiritual food. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ...Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever... "(I Co 10:4; Heb 13:8).

Space is short. One could mention Jacob using eugenics to make a superior herd from his uncle's flocks. One could site Romans 11, as well as the gospels, as literal or metaphorical stories using husbandry/eugenic techniques concerning animals and plants to strengthen the species, or the good characteristics within the valued species. The stories also showed that the bible destroys the cowardly, the useless breeds, and unfit characteristics. Christ did not even spare an olive tree that bore no fruit. That's some powerful eugenics!

---

You're point on eugenics as a manifestation of evolution ALONE does not hold up against the weight of evidence in your own bible. Personally, I do not subscribe to eugenics which may have something to do with my current belief system.

[grey_whiskers]

The moslems of the time of the crusades were not a credible threat to europe.

Come again?

I am thinking the Battle of Tours in 732, and that that Spain was only completely recovered by Christendom the same year as Columbus discovered America. If you discount Spain as the heart of Europe, we'll agree; but Islam was a pretty major threat to Europe for quite some time.

Consider that the Ottoman Turks nearly took Vienna in 1683. You know, more than eighty years after Shakespeare died; if things had gone otherwise, the Muslims could've taken out both Pachelbel and Bach.

Sobering thought, that, for those who deny the danger of Islam resurgent in modern times.

Cheers!

[freedumb2003]

Well as the other evos, I see you have no argument of substance, nor can you bring true hard, or real evo-evidence to the forum. But you are making an attempt to steer the focus away from that.

Let's run that through the BS-O-Meter. Let's go back to the post to which I responded. Back...back....back...*fade out*

*fade in*

Running Wolf: Why then you seem to be blind to the anti-catholic, ant-christian bigotry that constantly flows out of the evo side.

Freedmb2003: Please provide specific references, with proper context.

The vitrol comes from Creos who suggest that because some groups in the past have supported TToE, the followers must be evil (the lowest form of the Guilt By Association fallacy).

And when you get (properly) nailed dead center for it, you run.

*fade out slow*

*circular wipe in*

Why, RunningWolf. You made a specific accusation against all evos. And I called you out on it. I directly asked for proof. Your response -- "what does that have to do with anything?" In other words, you ran.

Do you not realize your posts are STILL THERE? It isn't like a verbal conversation where you can accuse someone of mis-quoting.

Now, will you substantiate your accusation or will you just sullenly say "that's not fair" and pout? Quoting out of context or ignoring things put right before your eyes IS a hallmark of you CRIDers, but I have higher expectations from some of you.

[grey_whiskers]

Check out some of the abortion threads/flamewars for the claims as to the number of abortions per capita among Russia women--I have heard sources claiming as many as eight abortions.

If the sex was for procreation, instead of entertainment, they wouldn't be having so many abortions, eh?

As for the European women, you could ask Freeper GermanBusiness ;-)

I have had a number of European women co-workers who have expressly described to me their deliberate decision to refrain from having children.

And I have talked to exchange students who talked about the casual in flagrante behaviour of many college kids over there. Couple that with any number of FReeper threads about the death of the European social welfare model, and the consequent necessity to import young laborers from the Muslim world, and...voila!

Anecdotal, but not made up.

Cheers!

[js1138]

New tag line

[grey_whiskers]

I'm sorry, you misunderstood that remark.

Let me spell the sarcasm out for you.

1. jec41 got banned for extensive quote mining of Mein Kampf while attempting to substantiate his claim that Hitler was a Christain.

2. You commented (post 566) that the banning was an example of silencing by these good Christians.

3. If Hitler was a Christian (as has been stated elsewhere on this thread[*]) then surely one ought to give a reckoning of all the people HE silenced. Buchenwald and Auschwitz were far worse than having a screen name banned from FR.

[*] Yes I have read the posts stating that the "Hitler = Christian" is just chain-yanking to illustrate the absurdity of "Hitler = Darwinist". Fine, on the crevo threads, people resort to hyperbole, and full-contact discussion is OK, provided we all agree. But to go beyond that, to advance the position in earnest, deserves rebuke.

Cheers!

[mjolnir]

Come on, not one of those is an example of eugenics. The Bible does not showcase the destrucruction of the unfit--- just the opposite--- look at Jesus with the lepers. It was the gnostics who despised the weak.

And I can't believe you used the Cretan example! That's not meant to be taken literally--- it's a joke--- the liar's paradox! You know the paradox about whether this

Cretan prophet: All Cretans tell nothing but lies.

is true or false!

Breeding plants isn't eugenics---- applying breeding principles to human beings *equals* eugenics.

i suppose you could call Plato a eugenicist. But do you really doubt that modern eugenics was inspired by Malthus, Spencer and Darwin and invented by Galton?

[grey_whiskers]

And had therefore been settled peacefully in the holy land for about 300 years at the time of the first crusade. Just how long do you think you are entitled to hold a grudge?

Ask any liberal about the "reparations for slavery" movement :-)

Cheers!