Posted on 04/04/2006 2:17:28 PM PDT by Eaglewatcher
The FairTax (HR 25 in the US House and S 25 in the US Senate) is a federal retail sales tax that replaces the entire federal income and Social Security tax systems, including personal, gift, estate, capital gains, alternative minimum, Social Security/Medicare, self-employment, and corporate taxes. The FairTax allows Americans to keep 100 percent of their paychecks (minus any state income taxes), ends corporate taxes and compliance costs hidden in the retail cost of goods and services, and fully funds the federal government while fulfilling the promise of Social Security and Medicare.
More FairTax benefits:
No tax on used goods. No tax on business inputs. With the FairTax, if you choose to buy any new good or service, the sales tax is charged just as state sales taxes are computed today. If you choose to buy used goods - used car, used home, used appliances - you do not pay the FairTax. If, as a business owner or farmer, you buy something for strictly business purposes (not for personal consumption), you pay no FairTax. So, in deciding what to buy, you get to choose whether or not you pay the FairTax.
No federal sales tax up to the poverty level means progressivity like today's tax system. Furthermore, to ensure that no American pays tax on necessities, the FairTax plan provides a prepaid, monthly rebate for every registered household to cover the consumption tax spent on necessities up to the federal poverty level. This, along with several other features, is how the FairTax completely untaxes the poor, lowers the tax burden on most, while making the overall rate progressive. However, the FairTax is progressive based on lifestyle/spending choices, rather than simply punishing those taxpayers who are successful. Do you see how much freer life is with the FairTax instead of the income tax?
All Americans take home their whole paychecks. Not only do more Americans have jobs, but they also take home 100 percent of their paychecks (except where state income taxes apply). No federal income taxes or payroll taxes are withheld from paychecks, pensions, or Social Security checks. Retail prices no longer hide corporate taxes or their compliance costs, which drive up costs for those who can least afford to pay. Did you know that hidden income taxes and the cost of complying with them currently make up 20 to 30 percent of all retail prices? It's true. According to Dr. Dale Jorgenson of Harvard University, hidden income taxes are passed on to the consumer in the form of higher prices - from 20 to 30 percent higher than they would otherwise be - for everything you buy.
Tax criminals - don't make criminals out of honest taxpayers. Today, the IRS admits to 25 percent non-compliance with the code. However, this does not take into account the criminal/drug/porn economy, which conservative estimates put at one trillion dollars of untaxed activity. The FairTax taxes those engaged in the underground economy capturing their income at the cash register. The substantial decrease in points of compliance - from every wage earner, investor, and retiree, down to only retailers - also allows enforcement to concentrate on following the money to criminal activity, rather than making potential criminals out of every taxpayer struggling to decipher the code.
The income tax exports our jobs, rather than our products. The FairTax brings jobs home. Most importantly, U.S. exports are not burdened by the FairTax, as they are with the current income tax. So the FairTax allows U.S. exports to sell overseas for prices 22 percent lower, on average, than they do now, with similar profit margins. Lower prices sharply increase demand for U.S. exports, thereby increasing job creation in U.S. manufacturing sectors. At home, foreign imports are subject to the same FairTax rate as domestically produced goods. Not only does the FairTax put U.S. products sold here on the same tax footing as foreign imports, but the dramatic lowering of compliance costs in comparison to other countries' value-added taxes also gives U.S. products a definitive pricing advantage which foreign tax systems cannot match.
YOU are in charge! The FairTax moves us from a system that taxes what we earn to a system that taxes what we spend. Under the FairTax, you control your tax liability, not the government. The FairTax puts "we the people" in charge of our money, and puts us all on the path to economic freedom!
To enact the FairTax and unleash the full economic potential of the U.S., we must apply Vocal and Persistent pressure on Congress each week.
Email, call or fax your members of Congress today. Send them this simple message: "Please support replacing the federal income tax code and become a co-sponsor of HR 25 or S 25, the FairTax."
Take a look at Shalom Israel's posts #407. 408. 409. 410. 413, 415,& 418.
All are off-topic and no doubt intended to derail the discussion from tax issues. This person is nothing but an intentional disruptor and I believe should be banned if he's not interested in contributing to the subject at hand but only disrupting it.
Might very well be the same guy with a different screenname.
He of course has the right of free speech, meaning that he can say whatever he wants--however banal and vacuous. But luckily, I have the right of free association, which means I can ignore his twittering. I've amused myself a bit by replying with non sequiturs this evening, because I think it nicely illustrates the utter one-sidedness of his posting: he can even incorporate a post about food into his imaginary debate, and convince himself that he's gained advantage into the bargain.
That you're willing to join him in his fantasy doesn't speak terribly well of your own qualifications as a discussant, but of course that isn't news. By all means continue flattering each other.
As for the actual subject of this thread, I've said enough. Nobody has made even an abortive attempt at disproving any of my arguments, so until or unless someone does so, the ball is not in my court.
You were told earlier to knock off the personal attacks. Now you're spammimg this thread.
This is your last warning to knock it off!
Pigdog's posts are in the nature of ad hominem attacks, and having already been asked not to say mean things to people, I am powerless to respond. If you check each of the posts flagged by Pigdog, you will see that I was replying in each case to yet another post by Pigdog and directed at me.
This situation has me a bit perplexed. I'm more than willing to comply with the request not to say anything mean to anybody, but the same courtesy is not being extended back to me. I will stop reading this thread, in hopes that future trouble is avoided.
Bye, fraud.
Intellectual discourse requires at least two discussants, both of whom must have the intellectual wherewithal.
Indeed it does. You showed your tail at #232, with your failure to answer AG.
I've amused myself a bit by replying with non sequiturs this evening,
Yes, you have. -- It nicely illustrates the utterly inane one-sidedness of your posting.
That you're willing to join in [t]his fantasy [of mine] doesn't speak terribly well of your own qualifications as a discussant, but of course that isn't news.
I'm not joining in your fantasy, I'm laughing at it, -- and you.
As for the actual subject of this thread, I've said enough. Nobody has made even an abortive attempt at disproving any of my arguments, so until or unless someone does so, the ball is not in my court.
Ancient Geezer utterly destroyed your arguments, -- and you abandoned the discussion at #232. -- Admit it.
The FairTax base (retail goods) is much, much larger than the number of incomes tax base (incomes).But it collects the same amount AND pays out MORE in negative taxes...so (without more personal insults if you're capable) what's your point?
It was incorrect to ban Shalom Israel. His comments were ridiculous, but he was making a point. Pigdog was using the same tactic making asnine comments in posts in 318, 319, 321, 322, 323, 324, 325, 328, 329, 331, 332 and many more. Pigdog made no intelligent point, just stupid attacks to bump the thread to shill for the fairtax. Shalom was just responding in kind.
You notice my example did not include guesses. Guesses are not necessary.
All that is necessary is for everybody to sit down and run their own numbers. I realize that is more effort than simply promising everybody some generalized benefit. I feel confident that enough voters would like the results they see to pass the FairTax.
Shalom Israel was banned because he was a retread.
Nihao, Mathemagician are two of his previous names.
Intellectual discourse requires at least two discussants, both of whom must have the intellectual wherewithal.
Take a look at Shalom Israel's posts #407. 408. 409. 410. 413, 415,& 418.
421
Other gems by Shalom Israel include prohibited personal attacks...
As far as I can tell Shalom Israel does much, much more to discredit the few anti-FairTax detractors while benefiting the FairTax revolution.
. The FairTax (H.R.25) explicitly taxes only retail goods for consumption with the expressed intent of taxing those items once and only once.` (12) TAXABLE EMPLOYER-----
BTW, thanks for assisting me in correcting my error in order to make sure I accurately and specifically identified your dishonesty.(shaking head in near disbelief) You're sooo easy
`(A) IN GENERAL- The term `taxable employer' includes--In case you don't understand it, it's your 30% (not 23%) fairtax imposed ON wages, salaries and benefits of "any government employee"....And it's HUGE! Not to mention you omitted the Fairtax is also imposed on services....(shaking head in near disbelief) You're sooo`(i) any household employing domestic servants, and
`(ii) any government except for government enterprises (as defined in section 704).
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`(C) CROSS REFERENCE- For rules relating to collection and remittance of tax on wages by taxable employers, see section 103(b)(2).
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`103(b)(2)
CERTAIN WAGES OR SALARY- In the case of wages or salary paid by a taxable employer which are taxable services, the employer shall remit the tax imposed by section 101.----
`(17) WAGES AND SALARY- The terms `wage' and `salary' mean all compensation paid for employment service including cash compensation, employee benefits, disability insurance, or wage replacement insurance payments, unemployment compensation insurance, workers' compensation insurance, and the fair market value of any other consideration paid by an employer to an employee in consideration for employment services rendered.
so (without more personal insults if you're capable) what's your point?
It is not a personal insult it is a statement of fact. You know full well what the Fair Tax Act, H.R.25 S1493 say. And you dishonestly imply otherwise (see below the ****). Those are facts. If you feel insulted look in the mirror.
****
lewislynn: The Fairtax tax base already taxes everything new, what's it going to expand to, taxing everything used, taxing income?390
As previously said at 392: The FairTax (H.R.25) explicitly taxes only retail goods for consumption with the expressed intent of taxing those items once and only once. As well, the FairTax eliminates the income tax code and its muscle, the IRS. The FairTax base (retail goods) is much, much larger than the number of incomes tax base (incomes). But you already know all of that. Thus you were being intentionally deceptive when you wrote: "The Fairtax tax base already taxes everything new, what's it going to expand to, taxing everything used, taxing income?"
Well take a look at many of pigdog's responses. Pigdog started responding to dozens of comments around post 310 to three days old comments and most of his arguements were void of any substance. All he did was call all these arguements wrong, and when he did make a point it had little to do with the subject. Just pure shilling.
I offered you $500 to contact your buddies at AFFT to straighten that out. Boortz, Jorgenson, and most of your fairtax buddies have stated or conceded that Dr. Jorgenson's 23% embedded taxes included taxes paid by the employee. It is well documented. Put up or shut up.
The tax base is people and you know that. It figures you'd deceptively switch the tax base -- people -- into new/used products being the tax base. Lewislynn, you're dishonest to the boneLOL! Those are all your words sooo, who was being what again?----
Okay, the FairTax base is new retail items for consumption. The income tax base is incomes. Now it's correct.
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Thus you were being intentionally deceptive (when you wrote: "The Fairtax tax base already taxes everything new, what's it going to expand to, taxing everything used, taxing income?"390
Shalom Israel was banned because he was a retread.
Nihao, Mathemagician are two of his previous names.
I appreciate your efforts. Does that mean that Shalom Israel's behavior on this thread is acceptable and do not warrant suspension or banning? If acceptable I find that degenerative to FreeRepublic's longevity.
His behavior was unacceptable. He was suspended for it before he was banned after we discovered his previous identies.
Just how fair is the 'FairTax'?
Money Magazine
Part of the problem is the way Boortz and Linder are using the idea of embedded taxes. In an eight-year-old study paid for by AFFT, Harvard economist Dale Jorgenson noted that because the taxes paid by everyone in the chain of production are embedded in the cost of goods, prices could decline an average of 20 percent if all those taxes were scrapped. The FairTax Book devotes an entire chapter to this idea.
What The FairTax Book fails to mention is that prices can only fall this sharply if companies cut wages. I asked Jorgenson about this, and he agreed.
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JORGENSON EXPLODES FAIRTAX MYTH (FR Exclusive)
August 25, 2005 | RobFromGa
Dr. Jorgenson,
Excuse me for my lack of understanding of your answer, when you say "workers would keep that after-tax pay" are you saying that if they are making $1000 a week now, and paying $200 payroll+income taxes now, that under the FairTax you were assuming that workers would get paid $800 and keep all of that? Or are you saying that you meant they would make $1000 under the FairTax?
Regards,
Rob (freeper RobfromGa)
Dr Jorgenson responded:
August 24, 2005
Dear Rob,
I am saying that the worker would continue to receive the after-tax amount of $800. Prices received by producers would decline to cover the cost of after-tax wages to workers and after-tax dividends and interest to investors. However, taxes paid at the retail level would include the Fair Tax.
Best,
Dale
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Fair Tax - Straightening Out Some Confusion
Nealz Nuze ^ | 9/15/2005 | Neal Boortz
Now here's what we didn't explain well in the book.
Every employee of any company involved in American commerce is also a provider of a service, and, as such, the employee incurs a tax liability as a result of his or her work. This tax liability is incorporated into what the employee charges the employer for their services, and is eventually incorporated into the final retail cost of the employer's product or service. Each employee is essentially a separate business entity providing a product, be it physical or mental labor, to the employer.
The extensive research behind HR 25, The FairTax Bill, shows that the average embedded taxes in every consumer product or service is about 22%. In some industries, such as leather goods, the embedded tax is smaller. In other industries, such as homebuilding and construction, the embedded tax is higher, but it averages out to somewhere between 22 and 23%. With the passage of The FairTax Bill, those embedded taxes disappear. These embedded taxes include the combined tax burdens of all entities involved in bringing those goods or services to market, and that includes you, the employee, and the taxes you incur as a result of your employment.
We write in The FairTax Book that the competitive pressures of the marketplace will force prices down when embedded taxes disappear from the cost of retail goods and services, and we cite 22% as the average amount of those embedded taxes. Does this 22% include the income and payroll taxes that are paid by employees? Yes, it does.
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There is no wiggle room. The 22% embedded tax number AFFT quotes so often from Dr. Jorgenson includes taxes paid by the employee. There is no keeping 100% of your current gross wages AND prices falling 22%. It is a lie that AFFT keeps on telling. And it is a lie because they damn well know better.
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