Why does this all sound so familiar?
The key to Grifting is over estimating your Chances.
Posted on 03/27/2006 9:53:41 AM PST by Pukin Dog
Just a little dose of reality for some of you going nuts over the Immigration issue, because there is NO chance that you will win on the border enforcement issue. No chance whatsoever. Only after a migrant worker program passes, making most of these illegal aliens legal, is there any chance at all to have meaningful border enforcement.
Bush is not running for office anymore, but the Republican Congress is in need of a big victory in November. This issue will kill our chances to maintain the majority, and knowing that, Bush will likely veto any bill making illegal immigration a felony, if that bill does not include the migrant worker program (call it amnesty if you want) needed to hold onto Business and Hispanic support for the Republican Party.
The Illegal Immigration Genie is out of the bottle, folks. You can’t stuff her back in without losing the House and/or Senate in November. Pragmatic minds will rule in the end, and that is a bitter pill you best swallow now.
FReepers can’t will elections for the Republican Party, but we sure can go a long way towards losing them, if we can’t put our common sense ahead of our passions on this issue. I live in San Diego County, and I see the problems with illegal immigration on a daily basis.
Whether you like it or not, much of the commerce of this country does depend on these folks to do jobs that Americans won’t do for the prevailing wage.
So, you have a choice, you can demand the border enforcement bills on their own, or you can swallow hard and consider everything you will lose if we turn off 10-15% of the electorate, in addition to the business community that depends on these workers. Yeah, they broke the law, and so do the people who hire them.
So what?
Yeah, I said it, SO WHAT? The time to be worried about that was when there were REAL Republican majorities in the Border States. It is too late now. This is a problem that cannot be solved, but only managed.
It is possible to be right and stupid at the same time. Pete Wilson tried this a few years ago, got all kinds of support for it. It passed, and Pete Wilson is gone. Then a judge overturned it anyway. That is exactly what you can expect to happen with these current bills as well. Some judge will put an injunction on enforcement, but by the time that happens, we will be knee-deep into impeachment proceeding under a Democrat Congress.
Bush won’t let that happen, neither will smarter members of the Senate and House. You won’t win, you can’t win, but you can shoot yourself and the Republican party in the head (even if you are not a member) by pursuing a program that does not include amnesty or whatever you want to call it.
We lost this one.
Get over it. There are bigger battles ahead.
Why does this all sound so familiar?
The key to Grifting is over estimating your Chances.
LOL---so true.
You're wrong of course. Supporting the continued invasion of our borders allows the Democrats to run to our right on this issue. It will cost us votes, both from our own side which sees us as weak, and the "moderates" who will see us as pandering.
A few more Pro Mexico demonstrations will soon make it clear to those of you who doubt what this is really about.
"No. Some inventor will come up with a lettuce picking machine"
So, then the unemployed American thing is not an issue? Well, then replace lettuce with some other fruit, some other service, or some other product that Americans are not willing or legally able to pick, perform, or make for less than the minimum wage.
They could grant amnesty and citizenship.
Business have had everything they asked for the last few years from lower taxes to non enforcement of immigration law, no matter what the long term cost. I am fed up my country and the neighborhoods I live in are being sold out, upward mobility for millions of US born citizens is being taken away, and for what, just to improve the bottom line. My opinion at this point is that the busienss intrests that need illegal labor need to learn some serious humility, as in they do not deserve to be in business because they are in effect, getting a govrenmnet subsidy.
I AM right.
Dubya is the one who is wrong.
He is the one who is subordinating National Security for cheap labor in violation of his oath of office.
IMHO, it is an act of Treason.
You sure have the right handle. Your pro-illegal immigration posts remind me of dog vomit.
PresReagan didn't support open borders. Reagan said: "A nation without borders is not a nation." When the Immigration Reform and Control Act 1986 was signed into law there were 2-3 million illegals in the US. Today there are 12-15 million illegals living in the US. The IRCA was meant to be a one time only amnesty deal, with serious employer sanctions for hiring illegals. If Reagan were around today, he would take a far different position on the illegal immigration issue then he did 20 years ago. Besides, we don't need to make the same mistake again.
From FoxNews, June 10 2004
In exchange for legal status for the group, Reagan insisted that the magnet attracting illegal aliens to the United States be removed by extinguishing any incentive for U.S. employers to hire illegal aliens. In tandem with the amnesty, Reagan campaigned for employer sanctions for hiring illegal aliens, sanctions so stringent that many at the time regarded them as draconian.
Reagan reasoned that if an employer were fined for hiring an illegal alien (as much as $1 million in the worst cases), any payroll savings achieved by the hiring would be wiped out by the fine. In effect, it would be more expensive to hire illegal aliens than to hire Americans or lawful permanent residents. The few illegal aliens who continued to take the gamble and cross the border would be intercepted by a robust and more generously funded Border Patrol.
While Reagan’s 1986 immigration reforms can at least be called rational, they were a failure. Today, there are between 8 million and 11 million illegal aliens in the United States. The majority of them crossed our southern border and has found employment — illegal employment, but employment nonetheless. This is attributed to Sen. Ted Kennedy’s eventual gutting of the enforcement mechanism for Reagan's employer sanctions, and successive administrations refusing to give our Border Patrol the resources it needs to achieve its mission.
In 1986, though, President Reagan showed a clear recognition between wrong and right. If U.S. employers were to gain from the employment of people whose very presence in our country was a crime, then they would at least have to pay for it.
How far we’ve come since 1986. At the moment, there are two amnesty bills pending in Congress, and both predicate an illegal aliens’ eligibility on the very thing that President Reagan fought so hard to stamp out: illegal alien employment.
Can anyone tell me how this cloakroom phone number stuff works? Can I call the same number given last week and voice my opinion on illegal immigrants?
Done and done.
It sounds as though it is written by someone whose check book is well balanced, but for a long time, maybe forever, has lacked a fantastic surprise vacations, a passionate risk or exploration! Not that this is true of the poster, but is synonymous in my mind.
We all need someone reminding us of the non-risk, safe way to view life, events and situations. But people who envision a new solution, have clarity of values and believe in more than just the normal take your lumps and live with them, achieve greatness. My two cents on the subject of immigration. If this is nuts then put me in a bag and zip it shut.
Sometimes people are right and do win like Reagan. And we can too. Just need some gonads.
When it comes to illegal immigration, YES!
Do you usually pay more for things than you have to?
Yes, I don't by products made in China. So buying the American made product is usually more expensive.
Do you usually sell things for less than you can get?
I don't sell things, I donate my junk.
Do you think some people deserve to make more than other people with the same skills?
People don't deserve to make anything. What they make is dependent on themselves.
Do you embrace or reject capitalism and the free market?
Neither.
Do you embrace or reject government intervention in private dealings?
Neither.
Many, many small businesses find it too expensive to hire Americans. However, if the playing field is levelled many of these same businesses would prefer to hire legal workers. English speakers, also. And a good attitude goes a long way.
Ah, the sweet voice of reason.
It aggravates me to no end that some people here get more worked up about Mexicans than, say, anything else in the entire universe.
I mean, yeah, illegal immigration is a problem, but geez. :P
"So we FReepers should compromise our principles (and do so during every mid-term election)? I don't think so. If a couple of Republicans lose their sets, so be it - that will be because they compromised their principles abandoning their platform and core constituency."
You nailed it.
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