Posted on 03/27/2006 9:53:41 AM PST by Pukin Dog
Just a little dose of reality for some of you going nuts over the Immigration issue, because there is NO chance that you will win on the border enforcement issue. No chance whatsoever. Only after a migrant worker program passes, making most of these illegal aliens legal, is there any chance at all to have meaningful border enforcement.
Bush is not running for office anymore, but the Republican Congress is in need of a big victory in November. This issue will kill our chances to maintain the majority, and knowing that, Bush will likely veto any bill making illegal immigration a felony, if that bill does not include the migrant worker program (call it amnesty if you want) needed to hold onto Business and Hispanic support for the Republican Party.
The Illegal Immigration Genie is out of the bottle, folks. You can’t stuff her back in without losing the House and/or Senate in November. Pragmatic minds will rule in the end, and that is a bitter pill you best swallow now.
FReepers can’t will elections for the Republican Party, but we sure can go a long way towards losing them, if we can’t put our common sense ahead of our passions on this issue. I live in San Diego County, and I see the problems with illegal immigration on a daily basis.
Whether you like it or not, much of the commerce of this country does depend on these folks to do jobs that Americans won’t do for the prevailing wage.
So, you have a choice, you can demand the border enforcement bills on their own, or you can swallow hard and consider everything you will lose if we turn off 10-15% of the electorate, in addition to the business community that depends on these workers. Yeah, they broke the law, and so do the people who hire them.
So what?
Yeah, I said it, SO WHAT? The time to be worried about that was when there were REAL Republican majorities in the Border States. It is too late now. This is a problem that cannot be solved, but only managed.
It is possible to be right and stupid at the same time. Pete Wilson tried this a few years ago, got all kinds of support for it. It passed, and Pete Wilson is gone. Then a judge overturned it anyway. That is exactly what you can expect to happen with these current bills as well. Some judge will put an injunction on enforcement, but by the time that happens, we will be knee-deep into impeachment proceeding under a Democrat Congress.
Bush won’t let that happen, neither will smarter members of the Senate and House. You won’t win, you can’t win, but you can shoot yourself and the Republican party in the head (even if you are not a member) by pursuing a program that does not include amnesty or whatever you want to call it.
We lost this one.
Get over it. There are bigger battles ahead.
Sounds fair. They know what they're hirin'. (Be a bit of shock to my mom, though...)
It's not that simple. Not that simple at all. We have a problem. Yes, it's going to be difficult to send millions of illegals back across the border.
I say that we cut off their jobs by beginning to enforce laws against hiring them. Start busting the mini-van drivers picking them up at the local Home Depot. Send the ICE guys into every restaurant in each city. Move on to the motels. Arrest the managers and owners of these businesses for hiring illegals.
That'll do it. No jobs...no money...the illegals will start heading home.
Make it clear that if you hire an illegal, you stand a pretty good chance of going to a federal lockup.
Then, once the numbers have been reduced, start whatever program you like to bring legal immigrants in to fill all those jobs, if they don't get filled with American workers.
Your plan is just capitulation. I don't like capitulating very much.
What will happen when the population of illegals swell before the cutoff date for qualifying for worker program? What will happen when temporary worker pays and gets a temporary live in American familly and claims American dependents before he can be deported? What happens when they marry an American citizen? There are many IRS loop holes that will allow the guest worker to stay. What if most of the guest workers go underground when the deadline date to return arrives?? We cannot track students who exceed their visas, how is the INS going to track 11 to 25 million workers who decide to disappear? You claim small businesses will turn on the GOP if these laws passes. Pass the law and the GOP conservatives sit home and the Democrats will come to power. How would small businesses like to try making a living when the Dems pass one mandate and reg after another, and increase their business costs?
Do you really think the Democrats have a winner here? Here's what the Democrats have to convince the American people of:
Democrats: There are no jobs!
Democrats: We don't have enough workers! We need millions of illegals and more guest workers to fill all of these unfilled jobs!
Democrats: So many Americans living in poverty!
Democrats: Import massive numbers of poverty cases into the US so they can hold down the wages of the citizens who are living in poverty...and take their jobs!
Democrats: There is a widening gap between rich and poor!
Democrats: Let's allow millions of cheap labor illegal immigrants into the US to hold down the wages of the poor and allow the rich to keep more of their money by paying slave wages to their labor!
Yeah, the Democrats really got themselves a winner there.
Are you suggesting that Vicente Fox wishes to commit genocide against his own people?
Well, there is only so much you can do for, or with, Mexico. I don't think your solution works, because as you point out it is a kleptocracy. So the place to begin is tough enforcement. They were a kleptocracy 75 years ago and there was no problem.
>>>Bush will likely veto any bill making illegal immigration a felony, if that bill does not include the migrant worker program (call it amnesty if you want) needed to hold onto Business and Hispanic support for the Republican Party>>>
You are correct with Mr. "I love an illegal alien and I'm in love with Vicente Fox even though he absolutely hates America" Bush.
Rah rah rah - sis boom bah.
I just think you don't like non-Mexicans.
I'm surprised it was played this late in the thread.
The pro criminal illegal alien crowd must have been sleeping late today.
I hope they will make penalties stiffer for people that hire (enable) illegals.
I ALREADY HAVE... and will continue to do so.
Ok, but now how do you know they're illegal?
If my senator or congressman is more concerned with getting the pro-illegal alien vote then he can kiss mine behind because I don't want him representing me!
I am so sick of the politicians in this country bowing to allowing the borders to be open like a floodgate because they are scared of the current hispanic voters.
Don't worry about that right now. Just stop them getting in, then we can afford to be merciful to the ones that are already here -- maybe. But until they can't come in with impunity, any guessworkee program is just going to create another huge sucking sound. BTW, to all, I've been remembering the debate on the 1986 Amnesty, how it was to be a one-time amnesty in conjunction with strict border controls. Didn't happen, did it. No amnestia hasta los borders seguridades.
he had lots of ideas, but remind me please
No, I'm just remarking how selective immigration enforcement seems to be in this country... to my knowledge, WW2 was the last time there was any serious enforcement.
The politicians are talking about amnesty for the illegals that are already here. The mere fact that they are discussing it is going to encourage much more illegal immigration by those wanting to get in on the action.
Keep fighting for sanity!
"Do you want to be right, or do you want to win?"
At times this is the only way Americans can communicate with political leaders: by "sticking to our guns".
If our president is not doing what we elected him to do, then what good will it do to elect someone like him who saw that he was successful in acting against the wishes of his supporters?
(Also I believe your question may be an `all or nothing' informal fallacy. It is possible to be right and to win, e.g. USSCChief Justice Roberts.)
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