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To: Elsie; PatrickHenry
Actually, that is one of the most obscure and difficult passages in scripture to interpret.

The historical and orthodox answer is simply this: All men who are rescued from their state of sin are rescued by faith in Christ. Old and New Testaments alike.

The only difference is that those justified by faith in Christ BEFORE HE CAME trusted in the coming provision God would make for sin. The promised provision came immediately after the fall where God promised that from the "seed" of the woman, one would come who would reverse the effects of that fall and crush the head of the serpent, although he would be wounded in the process (cf Gen 3:16-17). Adam's response to this promise was one of early faith in naming his wife "Havvah"(Eve), which means "mother of life." This promise of a coming "seed" was fleshed out thru the sacrificial system (the idea of guilt being imputed to another, that of holiness, etc), the kingship of David, and various other "pictures" of the coming provision for sin. Before Jesus came, some (the OT term was the "remnant") were the "Israel within Israel." They were the children of the faith of Abraham. Augustine said this the best when he said (it was latin so it is not exactly the same, but it rhymed then, too). The New is in the Old, Concealed: the Old isin the New, Revealed. All persons for all ages are justified by faith in Christ. They trusted in the coming Christ, we trust in the Christ who has come.... and is coming again (so we believe).

Hope that helps.

1,876 posted on 02/24/2006 9:51:12 AM PST by When_Penguins_Attack (Smashing Windows, Breaking down Gates. Proud Mepis User!!!!)
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To: When_Penguins_Attack
Hope that helps.

No, because it's not specifically supported by anything in scripture. All I see is a flat-out statement that there are people in heaven who died before Jesus was born. There's also this, which shows an even greater number of pre-Jesus people in Heaven:

Luke 13:28
There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
I'm not an expert at understanding these things. I post; you decide.
1,877 posted on 02/24/2006 10:00:24 AM PST by PatrickHenry (Virtual Ignore for trolls, lunatics, dotards, scolds, & incurable ignoramuses.)
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To: When_Penguins_Attack
Actually, that is one of the most obscure and difficult passages in scripture to interpret.

Because it's one of the most clearly demeaning of orthodox jews? Which are the the easy ones about which there has never arisen any controversy amongst the faithful or the cynical?

1,885 posted on 02/24/2006 10:30:59 AM PST by donh
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To: When_Penguins_Attack
Hope that helps.

It does IF the people in question have some type of knowledge of the Judea/Christian faith.

I think the lurkers want to know about the ones who HAVEN'T heard.

1,887 posted on 02/24/2006 10:37:54 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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