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To: When_Penguins_Attack
Hope that helps.

No, because it's not specifically supported by anything in scripture. All I see is a flat-out statement that there are people in heaven who died before Jesus was born. There's also this, which shows an even greater number of pre-Jesus people in Heaven:

Luke 13:28
There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
I'm not an expert at understanding these things. I post; you decide.
1,877 posted on 02/24/2006 10:00:24 AM PST by PatrickHenry (Virtual Ignore for trolls, lunatics, dotards, scolds, & incurable ignoramuses.)
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To: PatrickHenry
All I see is a flat-out statement that there are people in heaven who died before Jesus was born.

That's because we have heard, from the earliest times, that "Gramma is in Heaven with Jesus", dear, "along with Fido.", when kids wonder about death.

I think there are very FEW in that state now.

The way I read it is that the dead are 'sleeping' in their graves (But, what if the sharks ate them?) and are awaiting the resurrection.

If not, what are the verses that speak about the dead raising all about? If the 'righteous' have been somehow 'pre-judged' before the Great White Throne time, I cannot find it.

1,888 posted on 02/24/2006 10:42:48 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: PatrickHenry
No, because it's not specifically supported by anything in scripture.

Actually, it is quite specifically supported by any number of scriptures. Three of the critical examples are the entire BOOK of Romans, which deals with the question "if the Gentiles are now the 'people of God' just by faith in Jesus, how does that affect all the promises of God to Jews down thru the years?" To summarize, Paul argues what I just said above in the previous post...., the message has ALWAYS been that of faith, and there has always been a "remnant" within Israel who were the TRUE people of God... those of the faith of Abraham.

The message of Galatians is essentially the same, with a little bit different twist.

Finally, Jesus is represented as explaining that the entire Old Testament was about HIM, both in his dealings with the "church leaders" of his day and in explaining that the OT scriptures were written "concerning himself." (cf Luke 24:27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.)

There are many other passages, but these are representative of the central message that there IS one central message, about one central person, and faith in that person as the provision for redemption is the theme of the one book, comprised of many smaller "books."

Therefore, the OT Jews would have been "in heaven" when they died for the sme reason as a NT Jew (or Gentile) would be in heaven upon death., and that would have been contingent on faith in Jesus as he had been revealed as "coming" in the OT. That is the central message of the bible itself, and is echoed by every serious scholar from Athanasius, Clement (both of them), Gregory of Ny., Augustine, Cyprian, etc etc etc.

1,904 posted on 02/24/2006 1:00:54 PM PST by When_Penguins_Attack (Smashing Windows, Breaking down Gates. Proud Mepis User!!!!)
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