Posted on 02/20/2006 5:33:50 AM PST by ToryHeartland
I don't recall a survey on this website. College graduates are somewhat more likely to be atheists than others, and that's true of scientists as well. But all the articles I've seen on this say that loads of scientists are religious. I don't recall any percentages; but I think it's well more than half. (I'm not speaking of people in the "social sciences" because they're mostly all commie whackjobs.)
As for the evolution ping list, now about 354 names, and virtually all pro-evolution, I think about a dozen or so have declared themselves to be atheists. Far more have said the opposite. The rest haven't said anything on the topic (it's really not relevant in a science thread, notwithstanding your example), so believe whatever you like about them.
Affirming a belief is the equivalent to a religious test. You can't affirm that you believe in a creator and that you believe in a total scientific explaination for the origion of life. Affirming that you believe in a completely scientific explaination for something that has no real scientific explaination only purpose is to weed out creationists. A creationist can not answer that question without disavowing his/her beliefs. Instead of defending your answer, you resort to name-calling.
>Well, as an Anglican (which presumably counts as a 'mainline' church), all I can offer here is to agree to disagree about this. But I take it your view confirms that the 'debate' around Darwin really isn't about the science, but about religion? I can understand that.
My comment is really related to the headline of your post: "Churches urged to back evolution." Churches shouldn't really be backing anything except the Bible and its principles. It may make "mainline" churches popular with the secular press and liberals to "back" evolution, gay rights, abortion, or a number of other issues that are not traditional Christian values, but invariably churches that do so will die, and fundamentalist churches (the ones that "back the Bible") will prosper.
I generally avoid discussions on FR about creation and evolution because it always degerates into what I call a "food fight." I consider myself a creationist, not for religious reasons, but for scientific ones.
Thanks for your posting, though I don't think the above bit is quite accurate. Darwin did not set out to reject the idea of creation (indeed, at one point, he was studying to be a clergyman), held conventional religious beliefs of his day throughout his 5-years as ship's naturalist on board HMS Beagle, and only formulated--reluctantly--his theory of speciation years later, when he came to evaluate the data he had gathered. Whether you agree with Darwin's interpretations or not, I don't think it can be held that Darwin set out to reach specific conclusions, he was following the evidence, at least as he best understood it. If anything, abandoning religious tenants he had held in youth was painful to him (not least because of the distress he feared it would give to his wife, Emma Wedgewood), though it may be relevant that the tragic loss of one of his daughters made him even more sceptical of a benevolent diety.
Janet Browne's biography of Darwin is a magnificent read, whatever views one may hold of Darwin's work.
Glad I'm not a Christian. Makes it easy for me to accept logic and reason.
Well, then, Thomas. Like I said, I am happy for you. It may have come from Aldous's grandfather being a part of the mix that sent me off penning "THOMAS" as everyone whom I quoted.
However your experiences may have been, I can assure you once again that I have not lied, nor misrepresented these people. They clearly stated that they "wanted" certain things to be true and one of them chose an ideology based on that desire, while the other had a personal motivation to make discoveries in the natural world which would render the supernatural unnecessary, if not ridiculous. They simply stated the usntated desire of many persons who "hope" that they can depend on reason alone to build a comprehensive construct of life.
I don't see much difference between that kind of faith and the religious kind....., except that one pretends it isn't faith, or just less so.
If you affirm a belief in a scientific explaination for the origin of life, you can not believe in a creator. They are two incapatible ideas. That is like making someone affirm a belief that the grass is purple, when it is really green. You are taking a position that the professor did not force the student to deny his belief that the grass is green, but in doing so he has, just not directly. You may disagree with me on a technicallity, but calling me a liar is an asine comment. But that is how these threads go. There is no room for any intelligent conversation.
So among the nation's top scientists, between 2/3 and 3/4 are atheistic by conventional definition; 15 - 20% are agnostic, and the rest are theists.
Excellent point; I'm not passing judgement on this, just keen to understand. I feel we are very much at a crossroads in the UK, have both hopes and fears about Mr. Cameron, and fond memories of the days of the Reagan/Thatcher alliance that did so much to better the world.
Because that is just what other men have told them.
Interesting.
I think it is clear what the intent of the professor was. The professor wanted no part of a creator in your beliefs of how humans originated. You can say 'wink, wink, he really did not ask them to disavow their beliefs', but it is clear to me what his intentions were. You can disagree, but the BS of people calling me a liar is outrageous.
Aldous Huxley, by the way, spent a large part of his life engaged in the study of mystical religions. He was in no way hostile to religion.
If you don't like being called a liar, I have a wonderfully effective solution.
The threat was clearly implied, whether you admit it or not. To ask for a student to provide the scientific explaination for the origin of humans is one thing. To ask a student to 'truthfully and forthrightly affirm a scientific answer' is repugnant and bigoted in my book. I see no different than forcing a student to truthfully and forthrightly affirm their worship of satan. It is a religous test, not a scientific one.
And I have a solution for you if you don't like being called a bigot.
On the other hand you have to understand that what you propose is not what this conflict is about. As far as most scientists are concerned you can teach in a theology/philosophy class whatever you want as long as you don't claim it is science.
But this is not what many creationsts are satisfied with. They want to pass off their theological opposition to evolution, geology, astronomy, radiology, etc. as equally valid as mainstream science.
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