Posted on 02/20/2006 5:33:50 AM PST by ToryHeartland
Churches urged to back evolution By Paul Rincon BBC News science reporter, St Louis
US scientists have called on mainstream religious communities to help them fight policies that undermine the teaching of evolution.
The American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) hit out at the "intelligent design" movement at its annual meeting in Missouri.
Teaching the idea threatens scientific literacy among schoolchildren, it said.
Its proponents argue life on Earth is too complex to have evolved on its own.
As the name suggests, intelligent design is a concept invoking the hand of a designer in nature.
It's time to recognise that science and religion should never be pitted against each other Gilbert Omenn AAAS president
There have been several attempts across the US by anti-evolutionists to get intelligent design taught in school science lessons.
At the meeting in St Louis, the AAAS issued a statement strongly condemning the moves.
"Such veiled attempts to wedge religion - actually just one kind of religion - into science classrooms is a disservice to students, parents, teachers and tax payers," said AAAS president Gilbert Omenn.
"It's time to recognise that science and religion should never be pitted against each other.
"They can and do co-exist in the context of most people's lives. Just not in science classrooms, lest we confuse our children."
'Who's kidding whom?'
Eugenie Scott, director of the National Center for Science Education, which campaigns to keep evolution in public schools, said those in mainstream religious communities needed to "step up to the plate" in order to prevent the issue being viewed as a battle between science and religion.
Some have already heeded the warning.
"The intelligent design movement belittles evolution. It makes God a designer - an engineer," said George Coyne, director of the Vatican Observatory.
"Intelligent design concentrates on a designer who they do not really identify - but who's kidding whom?"
Last year, a federal judge ruled in favour of 11 parents in Dover, Pennsylvania, who argued that Darwinian evolution must be taught as fact.
Dover school administrators had pushed for intelligent design to be inserted into science teaching. But the judge ruled this violated the constitution, which sets out a clear separation between religion and state.
Despite the ruling, more challenges are on the way.
Fourteen US states are considering bills that scientists say would restrict the teaching of evolution.
These include a legislative bill in Missouri which seeks to ensure that only science which can be proven by experiment is taught in schools.
I think if we look at where the empirical scientific evidence leads us, it leads us towards intelligent design Teacher Mark Gihring "The new strategy is to teach intelligent design without calling it intelligent design," biologist Kenneth Miller, of Brown University in Rhode Island, told the BBC News website.
Dr Miller, an expert witness in the Dover School case, added: "The advocates of intelligent design and creationism have tried to repackage their criticisms, saying they want to teach the evidence for evolution and the evidence against evolution."
However, Mark Gihring, a teacher from Missouri sympathetic to intelligent design, told the BBC: "I think if we look at where the empirical scientific evidence leads us, it leads us towards intelligent design.
"[Intelligent design] ultimately takes us back to why we're here and the value of life... if an individual doesn't have a reason for being, they might carry themselves in a way that is ultimately destructive for society."
Economic risk
The decentralised US education system ensures that intelligent design will remain an issue in the classroom regardless of the decision in the Dover case.
"I think as a legal strategy, intelligent design is dead. That does not mean intelligent design as a social movement is dead," said Ms Scott.
"This is an idea that has real legs and it's going to be around for a long time. It will, however, evolve."
Among the most high-profile champions of intelligent design is US President George W Bush, who has said schools should make students aware of the concept.
But Mr Omenn warned that teaching intelligent design will deprive students of a proper education, ultimately harming the US economy.
"At a time when fewer US students are heading into science, baby boomer scientists are retiring in growing numbers and international students are returning home to work, America can ill afford the time and tax-payer dollars debating the facts of evolution," he said. Story from BBC NEWS: http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/sci/tech/4731360.stm
Published: 2006/02/20 10:54:16 GMT
© BBC MMVI
Hitler was catholic. And quite hung up on christ. He went to a catholic school, and aspired to be a priest for many years. His speeches have frequent reference, one of which was already quoted on this thread, to doing God's work in persecuting the jews. Toward the end of his reign, he attempted to merge the catholics and lutherans of germany into his own version of a christian church, to be called, if memory serves me, the Aryan Christians. There is no historical evidence that the catholic church ever excommunicated him, or that he disowned it.
EXACTLY!
So...do I understand correctly that you agree that God specifically has it in for jews?
So from where did the elements originate?
Then it will be EASY for you to
PROVE IT
Why do I need to prove something you won't acknowledge is incorrect, and which would seem to follow from the quotes you've offered? Do you, or do you not disown the instructions for governance from God to the judges in Genesis? Do you, or do you not think roe v wade should be overturned on account of biblical precepts of morality?
I am not called on to defend a statement about your opinions you won't acknowledge is wrong. This isn't rocket science, you can figure this out if you really apply yourself.
NIV Genesis 18:18
Abraham will surely become a great and powerful nation, and all nations on earth will be blessed through him.NIV Genesis 35:11
And God said to him, "I am God Almighty ; be fruitful and increase in number. A nation and a community of nations will come from you, and kings will come from your body.NIV Exodus 19:5-6
5. Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine,
6. you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.' These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites."
NIV Exodus 23:27
"I will send my terror ahead of you and throw into confusion every nation you encounter. I will make all your enemies turn their backs and run.
NIV Psalms 9:20
Strike them with terror, O LORD; let the nations know they are but men. SelahNIV Psalms 9:17
The wicked return to the grave, all the nations that forget God.NIV Psalms 79:6
Pour out your wrath on the nations that do not acknowledge you, on the kingdoms that do not call on your name;NIV Genesis 15:13-14
13. Then the LORD said to him, "Know for certain that your descendants will be strangers in a country not their own, and they will be enslaved and mistreated four hundred years.
14. But I will punish the nation they serve as slaves, and afterward they will come out with great possessions.
NIV Genesis 20:4-7
4. Now Abimelech had not gone near her, so he said, "Lord, will you destroy an innocent nation?
5. Did he not say to me, `She is my sister,' and didn't she also say, `He is my brother'? I have done this with a clear conscience and clean hands."
6. Then God said to him in the dream, "Yes, I know you did this with a clear conscience, and so I have kept you from sinning against me. That is why I did not let you touch her.
7. Now return the man's wife, for he is a prophet, and he will pray for you and you will live. But if you do not return her, you may be sure that you and all yours will die."
NIV Exodus 15:11-14
11. "Who among the gods is like you, O LORD? Who is like you-- majestic in holiness, awesome in glory, working wonders?
12. You stretched out your right hand and the earth swallowed them.
13. "In your unfailing love you will lead the people you have redeemed. In your strength you will guide them to your holy dwelling.
14. The nations will hear and tremble; anguish will grip the people of Philistia.
NIV Psalms 33:12
Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD, the people he chose for his inheritance.
NIV Psalms 67:1-2
1. May God be gracious to us and bless us and make his face shine upon us, Selah
2. that your ways may be known on earth, your salvation among all nations.
NIV Proverbs 11:14
For lack of guidance a nation falls, but many advisers make victory sure.
NIV Proverbs 14:34
Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a disgrace to any people.
NIV 2 Chronicles 7:13-14
13. "When I shut up the heavens so that there is no rain, or command locusts to devour the land or send a plague among my people,
14. if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
NIV Matthew 12:18-21
18. "Here is my servant whom I have chosen, the one I love, in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will proclaim justice to the nations.
19. He will not quarrel or cry out; no one will hear his voice in the streets.
20. A bruised reed he will not break, and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out, till he leads justice to victory.
21. In his name the nations will put their hope."
NIV Romans 16:25-27
25. Now to him who is able to establish you by my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past,
26. but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all nations might believe and obey him--
27. to the only wise God be glory forever through Jesus Christ! Amen.
It's kinda like the old Jewish lament:
"Lord, we KNOW that we are your chosen people, but couldn't you choose someone ELSE for a while???"
I'm not disputing God's hand in the creation of the universe, just the supposed science of the Creationism. God may well have started the ball rolling and might be manipulating the world as we speak, but science requires rigid evidence, falsifiable hypotheses, and verifiable results. We cannot achieve those things when discussing a Creator. Placing Creationism to scientific scrutiny, doesn't prove it wrong, it just dispels it as science.
You scamps had best defend your Jew hatred NOW!!
--EvoDude (on meth!)
Your loss.
You should emulate the Don, who pores over every verse, looking for hidden nuance and implied meaning!
You like the idea of bears mauling chlldren, murdering all the first born infants of egypt in their cribs, and murdering wholesale a nations non-virgin children, and handing all the virgins over to be molested and enslaved? You must be a lot of fun at S&M parties.
Why do I have to defend what is there?
Oh, let me think...oh yea, because you want to re-impose the bible as the law of the land, as in the days when the church cruelly tortured and murdered it's political and philosophical opposition.
You have made your choice, so live with it, as I will with mine.
As I recall, I am not the one who spews out endless bible verse, of generally little or no merit pertaining to whatever is being discussed, but do seem to be specially selected to highlight the most morally objectionable, more or less disgusting parts of the bible. As long as you insist on so lowering the tone, attractiveness, and comprehensibility of these threads, you are not the only one who has to live with your supercilious, callous choices.
So...basically, your contention is that your verses have no particular relation to what might be being discussed in the threads they appear? And therefore, do not represent a point of view, or an argument which you are willing to stand behind?
So,...basically, what Elsie is to discussion on these threads is sort of like what a baby smearing food on the wall is to a gourmet meal?
Are you trying to bring up the old adage: "Birds of a feather, flock together."?
Are to trying to imply the RCC is a Nazi organization?
You hope!
NIV Proverbs 26:4-5
4. Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him yourself.
5. Answer a fool according to his folly, or he will be wise in his own eyes.
So you you don't believe that Three-In-One stuff either?
The mind boggles ...
You hope!
So.......basically, the verses you quote are arguments you think are related, in however vague a way, to whatever the question is at hand, but they do not represent an argument you would stand behind? You do not stand up for the bible--you just quote from it?
Are to trying to imply the RCC is a Nazi organization?
No. That's bollixed up logic. The wrong conclusion that would make sense is that I was trying to imply that the Nazi party was RCC. If I thought like that, it would be an analogy to the bizarre way you think you can spew biblical verse without having to be responsible for the argument you are thereby making.
The contention before the house was that Hitler was not a christian. I answered the contention. Clearly he was, technically, and at the heart of the argument, that his behavior ousts him from the christian camp, you must realize, from my historical perspective, what poppycock I think that is.
Only by those incapable of examing the quoted text and the full context, and deciding whether the former reflects the latter.
I guess that would be you, then?
Do I understand that you are now accusing me of illegal drug use on a public forum?
How do you figure this?
I don't have to figure it. You explained it to me, using a bucket load of biblical quotes--don't you remember? And since the bible is inerrant, hatred for the jews is biblically justified, as you & xmission just got through explaining to me. Are you both suffering from selective amnesia?
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