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Churches urged to back evolution
British Broadcasting Corporation ^ | 20 February 2006 | Paul Rincon

Posted on 02/20/2006 5:33:50 AM PST by ToryHeartland

Churches urged to back evolution By Paul Rincon BBC News science reporter, St Louis

US scientists have called on mainstream religious communities to help them fight policies that undermine the teaching of evolution.

The American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) hit out at the "intelligent design" movement at its annual meeting in Missouri.

Teaching the idea threatens scientific literacy among schoolchildren, it said.

Its proponents argue life on Earth is too complex to have evolved on its own.

As the name suggests, intelligent design is a concept invoking the hand of a designer in nature.

It's time to recognise that science and religion should never be pitted against each other Gilbert Omenn AAAS president

There have been several attempts across the US by anti-evolutionists to get intelligent design taught in school science lessons.

At the meeting in St Louis, the AAAS issued a statement strongly condemning the moves.

"Such veiled attempts to wedge religion - actually just one kind of religion - into science classrooms is a disservice to students, parents, teachers and tax payers," said AAAS president Gilbert Omenn.

"It's time to recognise that science and religion should never be pitted against each other.

"They can and do co-exist in the context of most people's lives. Just not in science classrooms, lest we confuse our children."

'Who's kidding whom?'

Eugenie Scott, director of the National Center for Science Education, which campaigns to keep evolution in public schools, said those in mainstream religious communities needed to "step up to the plate" in order to prevent the issue being viewed as a battle between science and religion.

Some have already heeded the warning.

"The intelligent design movement belittles evolution. It makes God a designer - an engineer," said George Coyne, director of the Vatican Observatory.

"Intelligent design concentrates on a designer who they do not really identify - but who's kidding whom?"

Last year, a federal judge ruled in favour of 11 parents in Dover, Pennsylvania, who argued that Darwinian evolution must be taught as fact.

Dover school administrators had pushed for intelligent design to be inserted into science teaching. But the judge ruled this violated the constitution, which sets out a clear separation between religion and state.

Despite the ruling, more challenges are on the way.

Fourteen US states are considering bills that scientists say would restrict the teaching of evolution.

These include a legislative bill in Missouri which seeks to ensure that only science which can be proven by experiment is taught in schools.

I think if we look at where the empirical scientific evidence leads us, it leads us towards intelligent design Teacher Mark Gihring "The new strategy is to teach intelligent design without calling it intelligent design," biologist Kenneth Miller, of Brown University in Rhode Island, told the BBC News website.

Dr Miller, an expert witness in the Dover School case, added: "The advocates of intelligent design and creationism have tried to repackage their criticisms, saying they want to teach the evidence for evolution and the evidence against evolution."

However, Mark Gihring, a teacher from Missouri sympathetic to intelligent design, told the BBC: "I think if we look at where the empirical scientific evidence leads us, it leads us towards intelligent design.

"[Intelligent design] ultimately takes us back to why we're here and the value of life... if an individual doesn't have a reason for being, they might carry themselves in a way that is ultimately destructive for society."

Economic risk

The decentralised US education system ensures that intelligent design will remain an issue in the classroom regardless of the decision in the Dover case.

"I think as a legal strategy, intelligent design is dead. That does not mean intelligent design as a social movement is dead," said Ms Scott.

"This is an idea that has real legs and it's going to be around for a long time. It will, however, evolve."

Among the most high-profile champions of intelligent design is US President George W Bush, who has said schools should make students aware of the concept.

But Mr Omenn warned that teaching intelligent design will deprive students of a proper education, ultimately harming the US economy.

"At a time when fewer US students are heading into science, baby boomer scientists are retiring in growing numbers and international students are returning home to work, America can ill afford the time and tax-payer dollars debating the facts of evolution," he said. Story from BBC NEWS: http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/sci/tech/4731360.stm

Published: 2006/02/20 10:54:16 GMT

© BBC MMVI


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: bearingfalsewitness; crevolist; darwin; evolution; freeperclaimstobegod; goddooditamen; godknowsthatiderslie; idoogabooga; ignoranceisstrength; intelligentdesign; liarsforthelord; ludditesimpletons; monkeygod; scienceeducation; soupmyth; superstitiousnuts; youngearthcultists
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To: DaveLoneRanger
Yes, I stand by my claim. Evolutionists interpret evidence according to their belief, and Creationists interpret evidence according to their belief. As you just demonstrated, creationists are the only ones intellectually honest about this fact.

If science worked solely by interpreting existing evidence and deciding on an explanation your contention would have a scintilla of merit. As science doesn't work that way (interpreting existing evidence and formulating a hypothesis is only the first part of a long process through successful prediction and attempted falsification that ultimately leads to theory) your contention has no merit. You have been told this many times before, which begs the question, why do you continue to promote the "interpretation" canard?

An independent view of the evidence on its own merit does not lead one to the conclusion that human beings evolved from tiny organisms billions of years ago. There are far too many flaws and missing pieces to come halfway close to it. As can be demonstrated, early evolutionary theorists confessed that they were not drawn to the idea of secularist evolution because of any scientific merit, but rather because of its implications in morality.

I am sure you will have citations of early evolutionary theorists who were drawn to "secularist evolution" (as opposed to religious evolution, or secularist atomic theory presumably) because they liked its moral implications. Biologists, geologists, or paleontologists please, not philosophers.

1,421 posted on 02/22/2006 6:24:21 AM PST by Thatcherite (More abrasive blackguard than SeaLion or ModernMan)
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To: Elsie
"It's a Wonderful Life." Jimmy Stewart, Donna Reed.




;)

1,422 posted on 02/22/2006 6:27:28 AM PST by VadeRetro (Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: The_Reader_David
I will leave you to argue against the others who are hawking the 'substitutionary atonement' theory of Christ's work of salvation.

I don't know about the big words, but THIS works for me:



NIV 1 Timothy 1:13
   Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief.
 

NIV Romans 9:15-16
 15.  For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."
 16.  It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.
 
 
NIV Titus 3:4-7
 4.  But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared,
 5.  he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,
 6.  whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior,
 7.  so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.
 

NIV James 2:12-13
 12.  Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom,
 13.  because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment!

1,423 posted on 02/22/2006 6:30:06 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: RunningWolf
But let’s subtract all of them (appeal to authority?) out. And I ask you Whatta, and You Donh, do you think this statement unreasonable? Do you reject it? Do you think it good strong science to reject it? <>

We are skeptical of claims for the ability of random mutation and natural selection to account for the complexity of life. Careful examination of the evidence for Darwinian theory should be encouraged.

Gee, do you think maybe this is why biological science establishments continue to fund evolutionary biological research?

I have no problem with this statement, because it is science's official position regarding evolutionary theory, and similarly regarding every other theory embraced by natural science--murky, ridiculous, insulting, tinfoil hat conspiracy theories of creationists about the scientific research&education establishment to the contrary notwithstanding.

Creationists, as a whole, seem vastly incapable of understanding that science's conclusions are overtly and intentionally empirical and tentative. The lack of desire on the part of science to build theological crystal palaces of ontological certainty was not a failing--it was a design goal. That's the fundamental reason creationists are almost universally extreme scientific crackpots: not so much because their theories are so technically naive and loopy, as that they trying to understand a process that is fraught with uncertainty, from the base of a pronounced desire for certainty fundamentalist theology pretends to supply.

1,424 posted on 02/22/2006 6:35:01 AM PST by donh
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To: ShadowAce
Not quite accurate. God smote Uzzah because he was not of the tribe of Levi. According to Deut. 10:8, only the tribe of Levi (the priests) were allowed to handle the ark.

Thus Uzzah was not smitten for saving the ark, but for disobedience.

David had access to knowledge of HOW the Ark was to be moved. It should NOT have even BEEN on a cart; new or not!

There were POLES designed to slide thru the rings to carry it.

It was to be CARRIED; not given a ride.

1,425 posted on 02/22/2006 6:35:07 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: Junior
Madame, I've read the Bible cover-to-cover twice...

WHooooo!

I'm not worthy!!!

...and indivdiual books several more times. It was this in-depth study that led me to conclude the Bible is not the inerrant Word of God and to actually notice the logical inconsistencies in it and in organized religion in general.


In depth my fanny! And those other books: what were they?

1,426 posted on 02/22/2006 6:38:53 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: ToryHeartland
I can understand (though I do not share their view) that there are those who profess a particular faith which they feel is incompatible with science, and my instinct is, that is a personal matter with which the state must not interfere. What I do not understand is why those of such a faith do not simply choose to ignore science ...

You're asking that all who can't take the metaphorical route, and who deem scripture to be hopelessly incompatible with the world, should behave as the Amish do -- reject modernity and live a simple, pastoral life. I share your desire that those who reject the world should peaceably retire from it. Better for them, and better for all, really.

Alas, there is a mindset that seeks to remake the world in the image of its own desires. It's commonly seen in Utopians of all stripes, and of course it's the driving force of ideologically committed Marxists. It's not uncommon in various religious groups. We're currently at war with such folk.

Before I'm accused of equating creationists with Marxists or terrorists, let me state (this is necessary for the literalists among us) that I am not doing so. Rather, I am describing a kind of Utopian urge that is capable of manifesting itself in a number of different and often incompatible core beliefs. The one common feature is the imperative to struggle for aggressive "reform" of the world.

1,427 posted on 02/22/2006 6:40:13 AM PST by PatrickHenry (Virtual Ignore for trolls, lunatics, dotards, scolds, & incurable ignoramuses.)
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To: BMCDA
 
He was lucky his head didn't melt. I saw a movie about that once so it must be true.

Yeah, I saw that too. Guess that's God's preferred way of smiting.

Try THIS!!

 


NIV Ezekiel 22:19-22
 19.  Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says: `Because you have all become dross, I will gather you into Jerusalem. 
 20.  As men gather silver, copper, iron, lead and tin into a furnace to melt it with a fiery blast, so will I gather you in my anger and my wrath and put you inside the city and melt you.
 21.  I will gather you and I will blow on you with my fiery wrath, and you will be melted inside her.
 22.  As silver is melted in a furnace, so you will be melted inside her, and you will know that I the LORD have poured out my wrath upon you.'"

 

(Ever hear of them Nazi furnaces?)


NIV Zechariah 14:12
   This is the plague with which the LORD will strike all the nations that fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh will rot while they are still standing on their feet, their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths.

However, I wouldn't want to be one of THESE folks! 
1,428 posted on 02/22/2006 6:45:28 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: dread78645
Nah. That was just good special effects. The preferred way is drowning (deluge & Exodus), plagues of vermin (Exodus), burning brimstone (Sodom), attacking Israelis (Karkari & Jericho). And then there's the one-off deals: pillar of salt (Lot's wife) and death by coitus interruptus (Onan).

God's preferred way of smiting is best understood when directed at the innocent young, such as the first born of Egypt, and the virgin children of the Mideanites.

1,429 posted on 02/22/2006 6:45:42 AM PST by donh
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To: Junior
Well, he did use that bear to eat all those laughing kids...

 

Not quite...

 

NIV 2 Kings 2:23-24
 23.  From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some youths came out of the town and jeered at him. "Go on up, you baldhead!" they said. "Go on up, you baldhead!"
 24.  He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the LORD. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths.

1,430 posted on 02/22/2006 6:48:13 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: PresbyRev
Sorry. Make of it what you will.

Yup, the Devil knew Christ was coming.

Nothing like a few counterfeits to muddy the water.

1,431 posted on 02/22/2006 6:49:39 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: RunningWolf

Hey!

Is this a new line for that 7 maids-a-milking song? ;^)


1,432 posted on 02/22/2006 6:50:37 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: ToryHeartland
I can understand (though I do not share their view) that there are those who profess a particular faith which they feel is incompatible with science,...

There are those of us who profess a faith that is incompatible with certain interpretations of the evidence. Science is not an enemy of faith, but a means to discover God's creation.

For instance, I do not believe the TOE. Not because it's science (it's not, in the strict definition), but because of the way it evaluates evidence.

I've heard that if you take all the fossils ever discovered, and try to formulate an opinion on the history of life on Earth, it would be the equivalent of taking four random pages from "War and Peace" and trying to formulate the plot.

Sure--there's evidence. Sure--it's even plausible. But there's not enough to state that it's definitive.

I love science. I just don't agree with the interpretations some have put on fossils.

1,433 posted on 02/22/2006 6:51:43 AM PST by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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To: Elsie
you inside the city and melt you. 21. I will gather you and I will blow on you with my fiery wrath, and you will be melted inside her. 22. As silver is melted in a furnace, so you will be melted inside her, and you will know that I the LORD have poured out my wrath upon you.'"

Why are you happy to spout such hateful, vengeful, pornographic trash so often? Don't you read this stuff before you paste it up? Have you read this stuff so often that it doesn't register with you anymore?

1,434 posted on 02/22/2006 6:52:21 AM PST by donh
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To: BMCDA
Note to self: never mock bald people

Amen Brother!

It did when I was younger - fat ones too!

NOW look at me!!!

1,435 posted on 02/22/2006 6:52:22 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: metmom

Recall??

He only read it TWICE!


1,436 posted on 02/22/2006 6:53:17 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: Elsie
24. He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the LORD. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths.

Oh, well, that's much better.

1,437 posted on 02/22/2006 6:54:02 AM PST by donh
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To: VadeRetro
I think that's the important lesson there.

It appears so!


Romans 15:4
For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

1,438 posted on 02/22/2006 6:55:47 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: Mamzelle

Do they TEST the lizard first to make sure IT isn't diabetic? ;^)


1,439 posted on 02/22/2006 6:56:45 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: ToryHeartland

There is a sign on a restaurant called Joe's crab shack, down the street from where I used to live, that I think is analogous of what I think science to be.

It reads, "Free crabs tomorrow." That is the promise of science. The promise is always forthcoming, but never really arriving.


1,440 posted on 02/22/2006 6:57:30 AM PST by Search4Truth (Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God - Thomas Jefferson.)
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