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Churches urged to back evolution
British Broadcasting Corporation ^ | 20 February 2006 | Paul Rincon

Posted on 02/20/2006 5:33:50 AM PST by ToryHeartland

Churches urged to back evolution By Paul Rincon BBC News science reporter, St Louis

US scientists have called on mainstream religious communities to help them fight policies that undermine the teaching of evolution.

The American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) hit out at the "intelligent design" movement at its annual meeting in Missouri.

Teaching the idea threatens scientific literacy among schoolchildren, it said.

Its proponents argue life on Earth is too complex to have evolved on its own.

As the name suggests, intelligent design is a concept invoking the hand of a designer in nature.

It's time to recognise that science and religion should never be pitted against each other Gilbert Omenn AAAS president

There have been several attempts across the US by anti-evolutionists to get intelligent design taught in school science lessons.

At the meeting in St Louis, the AAAS issued a statement strongly condemning the moves.

"Such veiled attempts to wedge religion - actually just one kind of religion - into science classrooms is a disservice to students, parents, teachers and tax payers," said AAAS president Gilbert Omenn.

"It's time to recognise that science and religion should never be pitted against each other.

"They can and do co-exist in the context of most people's lives. Just not in science classrooms, lest we confuse our children."

'Who's kidding whom?'

Eugenie Scott, director of the National Center for Science Education, which campaigns to keep evolution in public schools, said those in mainstream religious communities needed to "step up to the plate" in order to prevent the issue being viewed as a battle between science and religion.

Some have already heeded the warning.

"The intelligent design movement belittles evolution. It makes God a designer - an engineer," said George Coyne, director of the Vatican Observatory.

"Intelligent design concentrates on a designer who they do not really identify - but who's kidding whom?"

Last year, a federal judge ruled in favour of 11 parents in Dover, Pennsylvania, who argued that Darwinian evolution must be taught as fact.

Dover school administrators had pushed for intelligent design to be inserted into science teaching. But the judge ruled this violated the constitution, which sets out a clear separation between religion and state.

Despite the ruling, more challenges are on the way.

Fourteen US states are considering bills that scientists say would restrict the teaching of evolution.

These include a legislative bill in Missouri which seeks to ensure that only science which can be proven by experiment is taught in schools.

I think if we look at where the empirical scientific evidence leads us, it leads us towards intelligent design Teacher Mark Gihring "The new strategy is to teach intelligent design without calling it intelligent design," biologist Kenneth Miller, of Brown University in Rhode Island, told the BBC News website.

Dr Miller, an expert witness in the Dover School case, added: "The advocates of intelligent design and creationism have tried to repackage their criticisms, saying they want to teach the evidence for evolution and the evidence against evolution."

However, Mark Gihring, a teacher from Missouri sympathetic to intelligent design, told the BBC: "I think if we look at where the empirical scientific evidence leads us, it leads us towards intelligent design.

"[Intelligent design] ultimately takes us back to why we're here and the value of life... if an individual doesn't have a reason for being, they might carry themselves in a way that is ultimately destructive for society."

Economic risk

The decentralised US education system ensures that intelligent design will remain an issue in the classroom regardless of the decision in the Dover case.

"I think as a legal strategy, intelligent design is dead. That does not mean intelligent design as a social movement is dead," said Ms Scott.

"This is an idea that has real legs and it's going to be around for a long time. It will, however, evolve."

Among the most high-profile champions of intelligent design is US President George W Bush, who has said schools should make students aware of the concept.

But Mr Omenn warned that teaching intelligent design will deprive students of a proper education, ultimately harming the US economy.

"At a time when fewer US students are heading into science, baby boomer scientists are retiring in growing numbers and international students are returning home to work, America can ill afford the time and tax-payer dollars debating the facts of evolution," he said. Story from BBC NEWS: http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/sci/tech/4731360.stm

Published: 2006/02/20 10:54:16 GMT

© BBC MMVI


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: bearingfalsewitness; crevolist; darwin; evolution; freeperclaimstobegod; goddooditamen; godknowsthatiderslie; idoogabooga; ignoranceisstrength; intelligentdesign; liarsforthelord; ludditesimpletons; monkeygod; scienceeducation; soupmyth; superstitiousnuts; youngearthcultists
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To: Dimensio; darbymcgill
(Dimensio)
Except that he wasn't making an argument.

Clearly he was making an argument, if A, then B, to wit:

"Every time you call me a liar, you are calling God a liar"

In fact, it is no different than the argument made here, many, many times, by evolution advocates, and to paraphrase:

"If you attack evolution, you attack all science."

Funny though, I don't recall anyone on my side calling any of you liars. I simply see them defeat it with reason.

1,301 posted on 02/21/2006 3:58:21 PM PST by csense
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To: donh

Lacking any vestigial sense of humor, evos are being selected out for type...


1,302 posted on 02/21/2006 3:59:51 PM PST by Mamzelle
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To: editor-surveyor
Someday you'll figure out what a scientist is. Keep scratching your head in the mean time.

Make a lucid argument, or bug off.

1,303 posted on 02/21/2006 4:00:20 PM PST by donh
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To: Mamzelle
Lacking any vestigial sense of humor, evos are being selected out for type...

Make a lucid argument, or bug off. What a pair of bluffers.

1,304 posted on 02/21/2006 4:02:31 PM PST by donh
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To: donh; Mamzelle
Well here is a list of 500 Doctoral Scientists

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1582524/posts

Over 500 doctoral scientists have now signed a statement publicly expressing their skepticism about the contemporary theory of Darwinian evolution.

The statement reads: “We are skeptical of claims for the ability of random mutation and natural selection to account for the complexity of life. Careful examination of the evidence for Darwinian theory should be encouraged.”

The list of 514 signatories includes member scientists from the prestigious US and Russian National Academy of Sciences. Signers include 154 biologists, the largest single scientific discipline represented on the list, as well as 76 chemists and 63 physicists. Signers hold doctorates in biological sciences, physics, chemistry, mathematics, medicine, computer science, and related disciplines. Many are professors or researchers at major universities and research institutions such as MIT, The Smithsonian, Cambridge University, UCLA, UC Berkeley, Princeton, the University of Pennsylvania, the Ohio State University, the University of Georgia, and the University of Washington.


Wolf
1,305 posted on 02/21/2006 4:02:58 PM PST by RunningWolf (Vet US Army Air Cav 1975)
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To: RunningWolf
"I mean by your direct statements/or inferences, you have been into the minds of/and speak for (at minimum) Darwin, Hitler, Stalin, Popper and several more."

No, I have just read what they wrote/said. It's called research, something you never do. It's called reading comprehension, something you lack. It's called honesty, something you wouldn't understand. That's why you latch onto the silliest arguments anti-evos make here, and support the most blatant *misspeakers*. You're a cheerleader for stupidity and a mascot for dunces.

As for the scientists, I don't *speak* for them, they speak for themselves, And they overwhelmingly support evolution.
1,306 posted on 02/21/2006 4:03:19 PM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: PresbyRev; Elsie; Gamecock; Alex Murphy; Dr. Eckleburg; RnMomof7; Matchett-PI; ...
Make of it what you will.

So what you are saying is that Jesus may or may not have really existed (most likely he was nothing but a reconstitutited fairy tale) but that when you do the sacraments you encounter the "risen Christ" (whatever that is)? Correct?

Since you obviously don't believe that the Bible is true in any literal sense, how is it that you supposedly encounter this "risen Christ" person "in the Word". You even capitalized "Word" as if it were some kind of holy reference. By "Word" you obviously don't mean that book of fables, the Bible, do you? What "Word" are you referencing?

I am confused. In essense it appears to me that you chalk Jesus up to being some metaphoric figure, yet you are supposedly a minister of the Christian Gospel. Does your congregation know your "feelings" on this?

BTW, where is the GRPL when you need them?

1,307 posted on 02/21/2006 4:03:42 PM PST by P-Marlowe
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To: donh
re: bug off)))

Just who among the evopansies can enforce this edict? Keep in mind, you just posted this to two conversationalists who you could ignore if you liked.

1,308 posted on 02/21/2006 4:04:11 PM PST by Mamzelle
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To: RunningWolf
Well here is a list of 500 Doctoral Scientists

I remember this post. Do please, gentle readers, go look at that old thread and see it examined rather more carefully than wolfie apparently did.

1,309 posted on 02/21/2006 4:08:22 PM PST by donh
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To: Mamzelle
Just who among the evopansies can enforce this edict? Keep in mind, you just posted this to two conversationalists who you could ignore if you liked.

Evopansies? What are you, 6 years old? Do you have any more arguments, or are you just going to rest your case an namecalling now?

1,310 posted on 02/21/2006 4:11:14 PM PST by donh
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To: CarolinaGuitarman
No, I have read what they wrote also.

And to the rest of your post.
Its all crap, just like the images you put up. A reflection of you.., jerk.

Wolf
1,311 posted on 02/21/2006 4:11:59 PM PST by RunningWolf (Vet US Army Air Cav 1975)
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To: darbymcgill

My first try at a link didn't work.


1,312 posted on 02/21/2006 4:15:43 PM PST by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: donh
Well what do you say about these people?

Other prominent signatories include U.S. National Academy of Sciences member Philip Skell; American Association for the Advancement of Science Fellow Lyle Jensen; evolutionary biologist and textbook author Stanley Salthe; Smithsonian Institution evolutionary biologist and a researcher at the National Institutes of Health’s National Center for Biotechnology Information Richard von Sternberg; Editor of Rivista di Biologia / Biology Forum --the oldest still published biology journal in the world-- Giuseppe Sermonti; and Russian Academy of Natural Sciences embryologist Lev Beloussov.


Wolf
1,313 posted on 02/21/2006 4:17:44 PM PST by RunningWolf (Vet US Army Air Cav 1975)
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To: darbymcgill

Well, Dimensio was clearly implying the first definition when he said "argument."


1,314 posted on 02/21/2006 4:17:50 PM PST by hail to the chief (Use your conservatism liberally)
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To: RunningWolf

"No, I have read what they wrote also."

Then you would know what I wrote about them was correct. :)

" Its all crap, just like the images you put up. A reflection of you.., jerk."

Your character always shines through everything you write. You're a real people person. This site would truly not be the same without you here. :)


1,315 posted on 02/21/2006 4:20:47 PM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: donh
"Do you have any more arguments, or are you just going to rest your case an namecalling now?"

You act like this is a departure.
1,316 posted on 02/21/2006 4:21:50 PM PST by CarolinaGuitarman ("There is grandeur in this view of life...")
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To: editor-surveyor
"The question is, would you want your child taught that 1+1=3 because God said so?"

No, the real question is why do so many fools attribute to God things that he has not said? - Your question is a Strawman.

It is not a strawman. It is an analogy asking the question of whether the person being addressed has such blind faith that he/she would want their children being taught something patently incorrect.

But I will say I was a little quick off the draw. I should have said ..1+1=3 because an interpretation of the Bible said so.

No one "knows" what God said, although many (myself included) believe the Bible is His Word -- just highly allegorical in many places.

I stand adjusted.

1,317 posted on 02/21/2006 4:25:40 PM PST by freedumb2003 (American troops cannot be defeated. American Politicians can.)
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To: CarolinaGuitarman; donh

Do you have any more arguments, or are you just going to rest your case an namecalling now?

You act like this is a departure.

I'd call it the standard mode of operation.

1,318 posted on 02/21/2006 4:29:22 PM PST by ml1954 (NOT the disruptive troll seen frequently on CREVO threads)
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To: darbymcgill
If I were to defend Bill Clinton by saying to you that he "did not have sexual relations with that woman, Ms. Lewinski"... would you agree that the statement was an assertion offered as evidence of truth?? we can agree to yes, I presume...

To which you reply that I was a liar...

And to which I respond... If you're calling me a liar then you're calling Bill Clinton a liar... again a statement of assertion as evidence of truth?? we can agree that he said what he said, can't we? presumed yes????


The problem is that you are making the connection between calling you a liar and calling Bill Clinton a liar based upon the dispute of the truthfulness of one specific statement. The poster in question, however, offered no such qualifiers. He was not referring to any specific statement on his part as a repitition of a statement from God. His statement was an assertion that any accusations of dishonesty on his part made for any reason, under any context and in response to any statement, was tantamount to calling God a liar. This only holds true if pnsn is claiming to be God or if pnsn is claiming that absolutely everything that he states is directly, without error, from God.
1,319 posted on 02/21/2006 4:34:30 PM PST by Dimensio (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif <-- required reading before you use your next apostrophe!)
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To: RunningWolf
Well what do you say about these people?

C'mon wolfie, how many times do we have to go through this? The statement being supported is that purely random selection cannot easily account for everything we can presently observe about evolutionary theory--which is now true, and always has been true, ever since it was conceded by Darwin, and is also true about every other natural science theory. Since the dawn of micro-biology, many mechanisms, other than random selection, to produce genetic changes have been discovered. The fact is, that most of these signatories would not, if asked, (and some were, and that includes Behe, under oath) claim that evolutionary theory isn't the basic operating procedure by which species are produced--they claim, like most scientists who are on top of things biological, that the story is far from complete, as yet.

You're making a mountain out of a gopher hole. But there's nothing new about that, is there?

1,320 posted on 02/21/2006 4:36:35 PM PST by donh
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