Churches urged to back evolution

Churches urged to back evolution By Paul Rincon BBC News science reporter, St Louis

US scientists have called on mainstream religious communities to help them fight policies that undermine the teaching of evolution.

The American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) hit out at the "intelligent design" movement at its annual meeting in Missouri.

As the name suggests, intelligent design is a concept invoking the hand of a designer in nature.

It's time to recognise that science and religion should never be pitted against each other Gilbert Omenn AAAS president

There have been several attempts across the US by anti-evolutionists to get intelligent design taught in school science lessons.

At the meeting in St Louis, the AAAS issued a statement strongly condemning the moves.

"Such veiled attempts to wedge religion - actually just one kind of religion - into science classrooms is a disservice to students, parents, teachers and tax payers," said AAAS president Gilbert Omenn.

"It's time to recognise that science and religion should never be pitted against each other.

"They can and do co-exist in the context of most people's lives. Just not in science classrooms, lest we confuse our children."

Eugenie Scott, director of the National Center for Science Education, which campaigns to keep evolution in public schools, said those in mainstream religious communities needed to "step up to the plate" in order to prevent the issue being viewed as a battle between science and religion.

"The intelligent design movement belittles evolution. It makes God a designer - an engineer," said George Coyne, director of the Vatican Observatory.

"Intelligent design concentrates on a designer who they do not really identify - but who's kidding whom?"

Last year, a federal judge ruled in favour of 11 parents in Dover, Pennsylvania, who argued that Darwinian evolution must be taught as fact.

Dover school administrators had pushed for intelligent design to be inserted into science teaching. But the judge ruled this violated the constitution, which sets out a clear separation between religion and state.

Fourteen US states are considering bills that scientists say would restrict the teaching of evolution.

These include a legislative bill in Missouri which seeks to ensure that only science which can be proven by experiment is taught in schools.

I think if we look at where the empirical scientific evidence leads us, it leads us towards intelligent design Teacher Mark Gihring "The new strategy is to teach intelligent design without calling it intelligent design," biologist Kenneth Miller, of Brown University in Rhode Island, told the BBC News website.

Dr Miller, an expert witness in the Dover School case, added: "The advocates of intelligent design and creationism have tried to repackage their criticisms, saying they want to teach the evidence for evolution and the evidence against evolution."

However, Mark Gihring, a teacher from Missouri sympathetic to intelligent design, told the BBC: "I think if we look at where the empirical scientific evidence leads us, it leads us towards intelligent design.

"[Intelligent design] ultimately takes us back to why we're here and the value of life... if an individual doesn't have a reason for being, they might carry themselves in a way that is ultimately destructive for society."

The decentralised US education system ensures that intelligent design will remain an issue in the classroom regardless of the decision in the Dover case.

"I think as a legal strategy, intelligent design is dead. That does not mean intelligent design as a social movement is dead," said Ms Scott.

"This is an idea that has real legs and it's going to be around for a long time. It will, however, evolve."

Among the most high-profile champions of intelligent design is US President George W Bush, who has said schools should make students aware of the concept.

But Mr Omenn warned that teaching intelligent design will deprive students of a proper education, ultimately harming the US economy.

"At a time when fewer US students are heading into science, baby boomer scientists are retiring in growing numbers and international students are returning home to work, America can ill afford the time and tax-payer dollars debating the facts of evolution," he said. Story from BBC NEWS: http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/sci/tech/4731360.stm

There is plenty of evidence that Darwin was in fact an atheist from both his own writings and from those who knew him. A simple google search can provide that.

Since there appears to be a bit of a problem doing searches, let ME help!

Charles Darwin (1809-1882)
"By further reflecting that the clearest evidence would be requisite to make any sane man believe in the miracles by which Christianity is supported,—and that the more we know of the fixed laws of nature the more incredible do miracles become,—that the men at that time were ignorant and credulous to a degree almost incomprehensible by us,—that the Gospels cannot be proven to have been written simultaneously with the events,—that they differ in many important details, far too important, as it seemed to me to be admitted as the usual inaccuracies of eye witnesses;—by such reflections as these, which I give not as having the least novelty or value, but as they influenced me, I gradually came to disbelieve in Christianity as a divine revelation. The fact that many fake religions have spread over large portions of the earth like wildfire had some weight with me. But I was very unwilling to give up my belief; I feel sure of this, for I can remember often and often inventing day-dreams of old letters between distinguished Romans, and manuscripts being discovered at Pompeii or elsewhere, which confirmed in the most striking manner all that was written in the Gospels. But I found it more and more difficult, with free scope given to my imagination, to invent evidence which would suffice to convince me. Thus disbelief crept over me at a very slow rate, but was at last complete. The rate was so slow that I felt no distress, and have never since doubted even for a single second that my conclusion was correct."
( Charles Darwin in his Autobiography of Charles Darwin, Dover Publications, 1992, p. 62. )

Charles Darwin (1809-1882)
"I think that generally (& more & more as I grow older), but not always, that an agnostic would be the most correct description of my state of mind."
( Quoted from Adrian Desmond and James Moore, Darwin: The Life of a Tormented Evolutionist, New York: W. W. Norton & Company, 1991, p. 636. )

Your feeling is right, but the institutional forms of American life--freedom, democracy under law, free enterprise, minimal government--were all fixed before the bulk of the American religious revivals, at a time when the American religious landscape was more-or-less identical to that of contemporary Britain (though not England, the Scots Presbyterians filling in for the American Puritans).

The religious history of America diverged from that of Britain with Methodism--Wesleyans who set up their own bishops rather than remaining Anglican as the Wesley brothers did--and more so with the various Baptist revivals.

Sola scriptura protestantism need not become anti-scientific, but it must either become anti-scientific or secularized, not in the sense of embracing the world, but in the sense of allowing religion to be walled off from the world into a purely private domain.

Of course, there are American particularisms about the things you value in the American experiance. One is evident on FR: American conservatism, unlike continental conservatism or even Burkian conservatism, seeks to conserve the heritage of Western civilization up to and including the Anglo-Scottish phase of the 'Enlightenment' while resisting the continental 'Enlightenment' and all its radicalisms. Properly speaking, the word 'liberal' has been stolen from us by the American socialists. (Personally, I want it back.)

Yet, I defy you to find a single Evo post that contains either a purposeful logical fallacy or flat out lie. I can do so for CRIDers.

Please, most logical fallacies have absolutely nothing to do with formal logic. They're simply made up by the skeptical community, and anyone who's spent a significant amount of time within that community, like I have, knows exactly what I'm talking about.

That said, I'm proud to announce that those on my side of the aisle, generally do not engage in intimidation campaigns, parading about with liar lists and such.

As to your point about lying per se, I personally never try to accuse anyone of such, since intent is a quality that is extremely difficult to demonstrate. However, misrepresentation is an entirely different story, and to that end, I offer the following from a post by Ichneumon:

Yes, VESTIGIAL FEATURES do indeed provide evidence of evolution "either way", because if they linger from a common ancestor, they indicate the link to that common ancestor, and if they have been "de-selected" as you say, they also provide evidence for evolution because they leave traces of their passing, such as the fact that birds do not have teeth, but still have "broken" genes to produce teeth (which can and have been chemically triggered to produce chicks with reptile-like teeth). Even though birds have lost the teeth of their reptile ancestors, they retain clear evidence that they *did* have teeth in a distant ancestor. source

The impression here, amongst others, is that the teeth producing gene(s) were inherently avian,and that they were reptilian...both of which is incorrect.

Here's a media report:
CNN.com

and a couple of critiques:
critique
critique

For further information, the title of the research paper is:
Development of Teeth in Chick Embryos after Mouse Neural Crest Transplantations

I'll let the reader decide whether Ichneumon, lied, misrepresented, or proffered the truth.

"Accepting Christ" is not a biblical term, but some goofy emotional phrase that current evangelicals use for turning from their sins and placing faith in God's provision for our sins.

Not so 'goofy', but an apt description, I would think:

NIV Mark 4:13-21
13. Then Jesus said to them, "Don't you understand this parable? How then will you understand any parable?
14. The farmer sows the word.
15. Some people are like seed along the path, where the word is sown. As soon as they hear it, Satan comes and takes away the word that was sown in them.
16. Others, like seed sown on rocky places, hear the word and at once receive it with joy.
17. But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away.
18. Still others, like seed sown among thorns, hear the word;
19. but the worries of this life, the deceitfulness of wealth and the desires for other things come in and choke the word, making it unfruitful.
20. Others, like seed sown on good soil, hear the word, accept it, and produce a crop--thirty, sixty or even a hundred times what was sown."

NIV Luke 4:24
"I tell you the truth," he continued, "no prophet is accepted in his hometown.

NIV John 3:7-12
7. You should not be surprised at my saying, `You must be born again.'
8. The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."
9. "How can this be?" Nicodemus asked.
10. "You are Israel's teacher," said Jesus, "and do you not understand these things?
11. I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony.

NIV John 3:31-34
31. "The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is from the earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth. The one who comes from heaven is above all.
32. He testifies to what he has seen and heard, but no one accepts his testimony.
33. The man who has accepted it has certified that God is truthful.

NIV John 5:43-47
43. I have come in my Father's name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him.
44. How can you believe if you accept praise from one another, yet make no effort to obtain the praise that comes from the only God?
45. "But do not think I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set.
46. If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me.
47. But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?"

NIV John 12:48-50
48. There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day.
49. For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it.
50. I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say."

NIV John 13:20
I tell you the truth, whoever accepts anyone I send accepts me; and whoever accepts me accepts the one who sent me."

NIV John 17:1-9
1. After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: "Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you.
2. For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him.
3. Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
4. I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do.
5. And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
6. "I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word.
7. Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you.
8. For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me.

NIV Acts 2:41
Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

NIV Acts 8:14
When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them.

NIV Acts 10:34-35
34. Then Peter began to speak: "I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism
35. but accepts men from every nation who fear him and do what is right.

NIV Acts 15:8
God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us.

NIV Acts 22:17-19
17. "When I returned to Jerusalem and was praying at the temple, I fell into a trance
18. and saw the Lord speaking. `Quick!' he said to me. `Leave Jerusalem immediately, because they will not accept your testimony about me.'

NIV Romans 10:16-17
16. But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our message?"
17. Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.

NIV 1 Thessalonians 2:13
And we also thank God continually because, when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but as it actually is, the word of God, which is at work in you who believe.

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