[Thatcherite]

Jesus's disciples died horrible and painful deaths for their belief in Him. Men don't voluntarily die for what they know to be a lie. One proof in a multitude of evidence for Jesus's life death and resurrection.

If the willingness to die for one's beliefs is some kind of measure of the truth of those beliefs then we'd better all become moslems.

[Californiajones]

No, it is not the willingness to die for one's beliefs.

It is the willingness to die for what you KNOW to be a lie.

The disciples knew whether or not Jesus rose from the dead, etc.

Yet they went to their own horrible deaths voluntarily, in His name.

That's the point. None of the modern suicide bombers knew Mohammad personally.

[grey_whiskers]

If the willingness to die for one's beliefs is some kind of measure of the truth of those beliefs then we'd better all become moslems.

Slight misrepresentation, there, Thatcher, and one which your off-of-FR namesake probably wouldn't endorse ;-)

Moose-limbs are not dying for their faith, i.e. "renounce Allah or die!"
They are dying because they have been persuaded that dying while in the process of killing infidels is the sure way to 72 units of eternal nookie.

Personally, I prefer Harcourt Fenton Mudd's approach. At least until Scotty (RIP) and the rest of the Enterprise's crew jiggered with it ;-)

Cheers!