Designed to deceive: Creation can't hold up to rigors of science

CONTRA COSTA TIMES ^ | 12 February 2006 | John Glennon

[freedumb2003]

Incidentally, my compliments on your spelling.

Never try to spell before AM Coffee. One forgets the "Spell" button.

[xzins]

If it is so bizarre, then address it.

The libertarian argument is that the government shouldn't be in the business of dictating education. That should be a private enterprise.

I must confess that the education received at the Catholic high schools in our area FAR SURPASSES that received anyplace else in the state of Ohio.

I also must confess that parents whose children have educational gaps get their best results from private firms such as Sylvan or from private tutors.

[freedumb2003]

As usual, you can't address the issue at hand except through 100% ad hominem.

You can bold and underling until the cows come home and yet you can't explain why physics is science but evolution is not.

They both use the same methodology to arrive at conclusions.

Creationism is mythology and belongs alongside all the other "origins" myths.

[PatrickHenry]

I think if you follow this one close enough, you'll get something for the list.

Definitely. This one isn't faking it.

[Antoninus]

I notice that the more recent articles supporting ID are drawn from scientific journals. Meanwhile, this Darwinian evolution article is from a lame-stream fish-wrap.

There's a hidden message here for those who are perceptive and open-minded enough to see.

My father is a long time agnostic with a degree in mathematics, graduate work in high level physics, and a career in computer science. While he's not convinced by the ID arguments yet, he finds them very interesting and is willing to give them a hard look.

Contrast this with the non-scientific media/social science/political elite who go bonkers at the mention that there may be problems with the ToE.

Any scientist who is not open-minded to the notion that his pet-theory may be defective is not a true scientist.

[freedumb2003]

If it is so bizarre, then address it.

The libertarian argument is that the government shouldn't be in the business of dictating education. That should be a private enterprise.

How schools should be run and financed is IMHO way beyond this discussion. And is meaningless about whether evolution is science and creation is some sort of "theory."

I must confess that the education received at the Catholic high schools in our area FAR SURPASSES that received anyplace else in the state of Ohio.

Last time I looked, Catholics teach TTOE. Can someone definitively say otherwise (that is a true request for info, not sarcasm)

I also must confess that parents whose children have educational gaps get their best results from private firms such as Sylvan or from private tutors.

And MacDonald's is offering a new chicken sandwich, which has as much relevance as the quality of Sylvan or private tutors (which are probably very good).

[CarolinaGuitarman]

" Last time I looked, Catholics teach TTOE"

Mine did in the late 70's and 80's. My biology teacher in High School was a nun who taught evolution. In fact, she played a segment of The Cosmos to us about evolution (she did think though it was unfortunate that *such an intelligent man like Sagan was an atheist*). I don't remember any opposition to it in any of my science classes throughout school (I was in Catholic school from K-12).

[xzins]

Private education versus forced payment for education IS the issue that OP raised that you considered bizarre. That's the "blood-sucking parasite" part.

Evolution stands ONLY because it's forced on people in government schools. That's the thesis.

In a free market of school selection, it would not stand.

And Catholics do not believe anything that detracts from the fact of God's being the Creator of "heaven and earth." (The Apostle's Creed.)

They are forced by intrusive government requirements to include things in their curriculum that I'm sure they'd handle quite differently if they were fully free.

Just one Catholic high school in our large metropolitan area had more National Merit Scholars than all of the public high schools combined.

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

That's a lie. You claimed that I sleep around, which is not true. I backed up my claim; do YOU have anything to back up your very unchristian libel that I *fornicate outside of marriage*? Oh, that's right, you just made that up.

Okay, you don't sleep around. Granted. Which was exactly my point -- If I don't know anything about your personal life, why should I believe that you know anything about my religious beliefs? (Specifically, Orthodox Presbyterianism -- fact is, you don't know. Point made.)

Not so. You claim to be Christian, yet you are lying through your teeth. I made a very reasonable observation.

Reallllllly now. Would you care to explain how defending Jesus Christ's belief in Genesis is "Un-Christian"?

Oh, right -- you just throw out the "Un-Christian" label, but you have no ammunition.

Revealing of your immaturity.

Uh-huh. Okay, so you couldn't think of a good punch line. Whatever, I'll let it go.

"Again, au contraire. I don't want to use the power of Government at all." ~~ Sure you do. You want to force government to emasculate science education to satisfy your semi-literate reading of Genesis.

You Lying, Government-Dependent, Tax-Suckling Evolutionist.

Government CAN'T "emasculate science education"... unless it passes Laws against Scientific Experiments and Publishing. After all, the Free Market is as good or better than the Government at providing ANY Education.

All that I want is for Government to abolish Publik Skooling, and turn over Education to the Free Market.

AHH, but THAT'S what you HATE!! You hate the Free Market!!

You know that your Religion of Evolutionism cannot survive without a $500-Billion-Per-Year Government Subsidy!! Privatize Education, and all those Creationist Parents would actually have educational control over their children -- instead of you Evolutionists.

Let's call a spade a spade, "CarolinaGuy".

Best, OP

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

Thanks, xzins.

Apostle's Creed dittos. At least we agree on that! :o)

Best, OP

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"Okay, you don't sleep around. Granted. Which was exactly my point."

No, you said I did.

"If I don't know anything about your personal life, why should I believe that you know anything about my religious beliefs?"

Because you lied and were rude, both of which are not very Christian things to do.

"Reallllllly now. Would you care to explain how defending Jesus Christ's belief in Genesis is "Un-Christian"?"

When you have to lie about it it is.

"Uh-huh. Okay, so you couldn't think of a good punch line. Whatever, I'll let it go"

Sorry, I'll leave the immature sexual innuendo to you.

"Government CAN'T "emasculate science education"... unless it passes Laws against Scientific Experiments and Publishing."

You DO realize that experiments and publications are not science education, right?

"You Lying, Government-Dependent, Tax-Suckling Evolutionist."

More Un-Christian name calling.

"AHH, but THAT'S what you HATE!! You hate the Free Market!!"

Since the public schools are not going to realistically go away any time soon, your demands for evolution education to be halted is a direct attack on science education. Creationism/ID can't make in the free market of ideas, so you want affirmative action to promote it.


Now, I will ask again: Do you actually have a reasoned, scientific argument to make against evolution or are you going to keep changing the subject talking about the abolition of government schools and lying about what evolution is (it is not atheistic)?

[<1/1,000,000th%]

You know that your Religion of Evolutionism cannot survive without a $500-Billion-Per-Year Government Subsidy!! Privatize Education, and all those Creationist Parents would actually have educational control over their children -- instead of you Evolutionists.

Where you been for the last 150 years?

The parents who cut out science education will find that their kids won't be able to afford to give them grandkids. WalMart only creates so many jobs.

Their lines will become "extinct".

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

"Okay, you don't sleep around. Granted. Which was exactly my point." ~~ No, you said I did.

Actually, I said "I would not presume to instruct you on your Extramarital Fornication". If you have none to report, that's fine by me.

The point being, I know about as much concerning your Personal Life, as you know about Orthodox Fundamentalist Christianity.

You DO realize that experiments and publications are not science education, right?

Publications are not Education?

Never mind, you've entered the "I'll disagree with anything you say, whether it makes sense to do so or not" phase of Debate.

It's okay. It happens.

Since the public schools are not going to realistically go away any time soon, your demands for evolution education to be halted is a direct attack on science education.

Since Rape isn't going away anytime soon... Maybe women should just lie back and enjoy it?

Bullfeathers. Evolutionist Education exists because it is Institutionally-Supported by a $500-Billion-Per-Year Government Subsidy, in the "Evolutionism-Only" Publik Skools.

Well, I will continue to support Privatized Education and Personal Financial Freedom -- whether you think it's "realistic" or not. AND YOU WILL CONTINUE TO OPPOSE FINANCIAL FREEDOM -- because Financial Freedom in Education, means the Death of Evolutionism in America.

Best, OP

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

Now, I will ask again: Do you actually have a reasoned, scientific argument to make against evolution or are you going to keep changing the subject talking about the abolition of government schools and lying about what evolution is (it is not atheistic)?

You have a truly amazing ability to miss my whole point.

For what it's worth, I have many Reasoned, Theologicao arguments against Mormonism -- but I don't think that Public Tax Dollars should be used to teach that Mormonism is False.

Government Control of Education is Morally Evil. The Stalinist Publik Skool Regime of "Evolutionism-Only" -- by which the "Evolutionist-Only" beliefs of perhaps 13% of the Population are Enforced upon the Children of all the rest -- is one of the most egregious examples; but it is simply the biggest, ugliest tumor in the whole cancerous system.

The whole thing is wrong. Anyone who believes in Individual Freedom and Property should be able to see that.

If Evolutionists can't, it only shows how blind they are.

Best, OP

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

Theologicao -- or maybe even, "Theological".

Humph.

[Right Wing Professor]

Well, I will continue to support Privatized Education and Personal Financial Freedom -- whether you think it's "realistic" or not. AND YOU WILL CONTINUE TO OPPOSE FINANCIAL FREEDOM -- because Financial Freedom in Education, means the Death of Evolutionism in America.

Must be why EVOLUTION is taught only in public universities, and private places like Harvard, Princeton, Cornell etc. teach creationism.

Oh, wait, they don't.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"Actually, I said "I would not presume to instruct you on your Extramarital Fornication". If you have none to report, that's fine by me."

By saying *your Extramarital Fornication* you are making a claim I do those things. Try and slither out of it like a Clinton if you must, but we all know what you said and what you meant.

"The point being, I know about as much concerning your Personal Life, as you know about Orthodox Fundamentalist Christianity."

Does your Orthodox Fundamentalist Christianity allow you to lie and be rude? I was raised Catholic, and we were taught to frown on those things. Maybe it's a denominational difference. (Hint to the crowd: I realize that all Christianity forbids lying and looks down on unnecessary rudeness.)

"Publications are not Education?"

No.

"Never mind, you've entered the "I'll disagree with anything you say, whether it makes sense to do so or not" phase of Debate."

Scientific publications are not used in school science classes.

"Since Rape isn't going away anytime soon... Maybe women should just lie back and enjoy it?"

You sure like wallowing in logical fallacies don't you? The issue of whether government schools should be abolished (they should) is moot because IT ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN any time soon. Most people will be educated in government schools for decades at least. As someone who cares about the scientific literacy of this country, it is a moral treason to lie to children and say that evolution isn't the best scientific theory about the diversity of life we have. It is also a lie to tell children that the earth is in the thousands of years old instead of the correct figure which is in the billions.

"You have a truly amazing ability to miss my whole point."

I'll take that as a *no*, you have no reasoned, scientific argument against evolution (and cosmology, and geology, and particle physics...). You have feelings and emotion.

[xzins]

His reasoned argument was that the courts have ruled atheism to be a religion more than once, and again in recent months.

For what it's worth, there's no real way to combine bible and evolution without mythologizing the bible.

And mythology is fantasy.

[Right Wing Professor]

You Lying, Government-Dependent, Tax-Suckling Evolutionist.

Hey, this is fun. Can I join in?

You cretinous fundamentalist moron.

[VadeRetro]

Definitely. This one isn't faking it.

O.P. is the former Uriel1975. I cut my baby teeth on him. He used to post a lot of silly YEC stuff and hang on grimly against all evidence in the manner of the rest of the old-timey crowd here. (Think Dataman and, for those who remember that far back, Stingray.)

Not sane, but not new. Just the latest edition.