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Darwin and Malthus
PBS ^ | 2001

Posted on 09/29/2005 2:21:03 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe

The year was 1838. In England, the Industrial Revolution was under way, but it had made rich only the owners of production, not the workers. In increasingly crowded cities, ordinary people struggled for their daily existence. Some of the poor rioted. The Poor Laws were under attack: Welfare to the needy would only increase their dependence and encourage the breeding of still more hungry mouths to feed, said critics. It was in this pivotal year that Darwin, back from his voyage on the Beagle and trying to understand the forces that drove the origin of new species, read the works of Thomas Malthus, a parson and social economist.

In opposition to the utopian thinkers of the day, Malthus believed that unless people exercised restraint in the number of children they had, the inevitable shortfall of food in the face of spiraling population growth would doom mankind to a ceaseless struggle for existence. Out of that unforgiving battle, some would survive and many would not, as famine, disease, and war put a ceiling on the growth in population.

These ideas galvanized Darwin's thinking about the struggles for survival in the wild, where restraint is unknown. Before reading Malthus, Darwin had thought that living things reproduced just enough individuals to keep populations stable. But now he came to realize that, as in human society, populations bred beyond their means, leaving survivors and losers in the effort to exist.

Immediately, Darwin saw that the variation he had observed in wild populations would produce some individuals that were slightly better equipped to thrive and reproduce under the particular conditions at the time. Those individuals would tend to leave more offspring than their fellows, and over many generations their traits would come to dominate the population. "The result of this would be the formation of new species," he wrote later. "Here, then, I had at last got a theory by which to work."

That theory, of course, was none other than natural selection, the driving force of evolution. Though scholars have debated just how influential Malthus was in Darwin's thinking, there can be no doubt that his view of the struggle in society enabled Darwin to appreciate the significance of the struggle in the wild.


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: crevo; crevolist; evolution; malthusianism; populationcontrol
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To: Coyoteman
evolusheviks ? Name calling again?

I prefer f.christian's "fossil thumpers." It kinda had a musical quality to it.

81 posted on 09/29/2005 7:09:24 PM PDT by Gumlegs
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To: Tailgunner Joe
"You really don't like hearing any opposition to your dogmatic faith, do you?"

No he doesn't. He likes to throw around insults though.

82 posted on 09/29/2005 7:13:43 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: King Prout
hrmn...

That's all I could gather from your pseudo-intellectual posts, and the last one does not qualify to be such.

Have a good day, Prout, and inquire some day about choice on a given vs. undefined set. But please, not need to reply.

83 posted on 09/29/2005 7:14:55 PM PDT by ExitPurgamentum
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To: Tailgunner Joe
There is plenty more evidence of the nazi war on Christianity, but I'm sure that won't stop your slanderous religious bigotry.

Yup.


84 posted on 09/29/2005 7:17:39 PM PDT by Gumlegs
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To: calrighty

"Those individuals would tend to leave more offspring than their fellows, and over many generations their traits would come to dominate the population."

Now where's that thread of the mom giving birth to her 12th baby in the hurricane shelter in Cape Cod.....?


85 posted on 09/29/2005 7:18:47 PM PDT by geopyg (Ever Vigilant, Never Fearful)
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To: Nathan Zachary
"You really don't like hearing any opposition to your dogmatic faith, do you?"

===

No he doesn't. He likes to throw around insults though.


Hey, Nathan. You're supposed to be over on that other thread doing your evening's homework! You promised a detailed response to that long and detailed (with no insults) post #211 I provided.

Seriously, I did my homework, with no insults. Its your turn.

86 posted on 09/29/2005 7:27:39 PM PDT by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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To: ExitPurgamentum

regarding the last: you asked a set of stupid hypotheticals, I responded in the same vein.
don't like a mirror? too bad.


87 posted on 09/29/2005 7:36:45 PM PDT by King Prout (19sep05 - I want at least 2 Saiga-12 shotguns. If you have leads, let me know)
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To: Mylo

That sure is a twist of history. Hitler despised religion, He murdered thousands of Christians, razed thousands of Churches, and imprisoned over 800 preists to die in the labor camps.


88 posted on 09/29/2005 8:08:49 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: Mylo

Plus, with his belief in Darwinism running so strong, he murdered who knows how many crippled and sickly, disabled men women and children, regardless of race/religion.


89 posted on 09/29/2005 8:11:09 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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Comment #90 Removed by Moderator

To: Mylo
"In addition to his claptrap about racial superiority he ALSO used Christian rhetoric to inflame anti-Jewish passion among Christian Germans."

I know now. You're getting this crap from Islamic hate sites. You are so full of it it's beyond description. the only one full of revisionist history is YOU!!!! Christians, pope Pios saved countless jews from Hitlers dutch oven network, at a huge cost to themselves. The evidence is clear and everywhere if you care to look. Hitler smashed every catholic church that he could. murdered as many catholic priests as he could.

91 posted on 09/29/2005 8:25:26 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: geopyg

: )


92 posted on 09/29/2005 8:27:37 PM PDT by calrighty (`Nobody)
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To: Coyoteman
You know what you can go play with
You caught my attention here insulting Joe. People of your caliber are not worth bothering with, because you are too immature to participate in adult discussion.
93 posted on 09/29/2005 8:32:03 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: Nathan Zachary
Go ahead and make up history as you go along. Your not fooling anyone but the fools.

Do you dispute the Hitler quotes I provided? They were all from public speeches and published books. They obviously were designed to inflame Christian sentiment against the Jews.

And I don't read islamic hate sites. I go to memri where they translate the crap from arab media so I can see how they like to invent history as they go along, think everything is some big conspiracy theory, and that the Jews are behind all the evil in the world, and that evolution is "only a theory" and "the work of the devil".

You sound a lot like them.
94 posted on 09/29/2005 9:21:46 PM PDT by Mylo ( scientific discovery is also an occasion of worship.)
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To: Mylo
The stuff you quote comes from sites such as radioIslam,(Holland) where they like to publish crap like your spouting to pit Jews against Christians, visa versa.

Hitlers agression against the church is well doccumented, I don't know who wrote the books you are reading, probably the few revisionist Pope Pios haters. Names I can't remember off hand.

It is garbage however. Hitler hated Christians, despised the church. He was an athiest. He killed the sickly and crippled, trying to "Darwinize" his master race. He razed thousands of Churches, imprisoned over 800 priests to die in labor camps. The Church saved hundreds of thousands of Jews, smuggling them through monastaries, giving the Christian birth citificates, keeping Jewish children in orphanges.

Whatever crap your reading is just that. Perhaps you should do a little research and find the truth.

95 posted on 09/29/2005 10:04:46 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: Mylo

I sound like what, an evil Jew?

why don't you head back to DU. You don't belong here with that mouth.


96 posted on 09/29/2005 10:08:04 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: Mylo

So there was no "Nazi war on Christianity". Tell that to Niemoeller and Bonhoeffer.

And Germany was and is a Christian nation. Well, possibly in the most nominal sense but even that's a real stretch. There may have been a thin veneer of Christianity in Germany by the 20's but not much more. Not unlike many of the mainline denominations today which would make up the WCC. Masquerading as churches but having little in common with true biblical Christianity , rather espousing a worldview which is antithetical to a biblical worldview. Bonhoeffer lamented the fact that the majority of Germany's churches had no biblical understanding whatsoever and were little more than social gatherings.

Hitler attempted to coopt the churches early on and was opposed by certain pastors (chief among them were Niemoeller and Bonhoeffer). Niemoeller opposed Hitler to his face when he promised pastors that if they would go along they would be taken care of and by 1939 had done 7 stints in prison. Bonhoeffer took to the radio airwaves in the 30's and publicly denounced Hitler's plans which had begun to appear in the medical schools and elsewhere as a not so subtle form of eugenics.

Both of these pastors broke from the rotting corpse of what was left of the German church to form the Confessing Church. Bonhoeffer was later hanged by the Nazis at Flossenberg just days before its liberation. In short, Germany by that time was in no way shape or form a Christian country. If she had been there would have been more Niemoellers and Bonhoeffers and Hitler would have never risen to power.


97 posted on 09/29/2005 10:19:01 PM PDT by bereanway
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To: ExitPurgamentum

Yes, you're probably right. The reality of a model is that you always have to hold something constant.

As for Congress, most legislation ignores the one thing about economics we know with certainty: Incentives matter in predictable ways (my first undergrand econ professor used to say this almost constantly). This one reality is why tax cuts spur the economy and can actually increase revenues in certain conditions. It is why regulation tends to act the same way as an extra cost imposed on producers. It is why welfare recipients tend to stay on welfare rather than improve themselves. It is why Bin Laden attacked us on 9/11 after Clinton pulled out of Somalia.


98 posted on 09/30/2005 5:01:59 AM PDT by Thane_Banquo ("Give a man a fish, make him a Democrat. Teach a man to fish, make him a Republican.")
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To: Nathan Zachary
Can you use your brain for anything other than spouting out revisionist history.

The quotes were not from "radioIslam" or any such place. They were from Hitler's public speeches and his published books.

If you have any evidence that they are in error please present them.

Otherwise what we have are NUMEROUS documented instances where Hitler used Christian rhetoric to inflame Christian sentiment against the Jews.

Against this DOCUMENTED propaganda you post what? Speculation and Anecdotes. Of course Hitler opposed and oppressed anyone who stood in his way, Priest, Preacher, Sinner or Saint. The Catholic Church's policy was to kill any Christian who tried to break away from under their power; thus they killed and oppressed many Christians. Does this make them "anti-Christian". Of course not.

Lets try a little logic, and a little history next time.

If history is on your side, why don't you try to supply some. And not private quotes whispered to one source who published them posthumously. PUBLIC pronouncements. PUBLIC publications.

Otherwise I stand by the HISTORICAL FACT, that Hitler used Christian rhetoric to inflame Christian sentiment against the Jews.
99 posted on 09/30/2005 6:35:13 AM PDT by Mylo ( scientific discovery is also an occasion of worship.)
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To: Nathan Zachary
How stupid do you have to be to say that Hitler was an atheist?

Here are some PUBLIC pronouncements (not secretly whispered to one source, but delivered publicly) that went along with some cracked skulls that he delivered to some German atheists.


Hitler on signing the Nazi-Vatican Concordat, April 26, 1933: "Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without religious foundation is built on air; consequently all character training and religion must be derived from faith . . ."

October 24, 1933, in a speech in Berlin, Hitler said: "We were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out."

In a speech at Koblenz, August 26, 1934, Hitler said: "National Socialism neither opposes the Church nor is it anti-religious, but on the contrary it stands on the ground of a real Christianity . . . For their interests cannot fail to coincide with ours alike in our fight against the symptoms of degeneracy in the world of today, in our fight against a Bolshevist culture, against atheistic movement, against criminality, and in our struggle for a consciousness of a community in our national life . . . These are not anti-Christian, these are Christian principles!"
100 posted on 09/30/2005 6:38:48 AM PDT by Mylo ( scientific discovery is also an occasion of worship.)
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