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Bush supports 'intelligent design'
MyrtleBeach Online ^ | 02 August 2005 | Ron Hutcheson

Posted on 08/02/2005 4:16:26 AM PDT by PatrickHenry

President Bush waded into the debate over evolution and "intelligent design" Monday, saying schools should teach both theories on the creation and complexity of life.

In a wide-ranging question-and-answer session with a small group of reporters, Bush essentially endorsed efforts by Christian conservatives to give intelligent design equal standing with the theory of evolution in the nation's schools.

Bush declined to state his personal views on "intelligent design," the belief that life forms are so complex that their creation cannot be explained by Darwinian evolutionary theory alone, but rather points to intentional creation, presumably divine.

The theory of evolution, first articulated by British naturalist Charles Darwin in 1859, is based on the idea that life organisms developed over time through random mutations and factors in nature that favored certain traits that helped species survive.

Scientists concede that evolution does not answer every question about the creation of life, and most consider intelligent design an attempt to inject religion into science courses.

Bush compared the current debate to earlier disputes over "creationism," a related view that adheres more closely to biblical explanations. While he was governor of Texas, Bush said students should be exposed to both creationism and evolution.

On Monday, the president said he favors the same approach for intelligent design "so people can understand what the debate is about."

The Kansas Board of Education is considering changes to encourage the teaching of intelligent design in Kansas schools, and some are pushing for similar changes across the country.

"I think that part of education is to expose people to different schools of thought," Bush said. "You're asking me whether or not people ought to be exposed to different ideas. The answer is 'yes.'"

The National Academy of Sciences and the American Association for the Advancement of Science both have concluded there is no scientific basis for intelligent design and oppose its inclusion in school science classes. [Note from PH: links relevant to those organizations and their positions on ID are added by me at the end of this article.]

Some scientists have declined to join the debate, fearing that amplifying the discussion only gives intelligent design more legitimacy.

Advocates of intelligent design also claim support from scientists. The Discovery Institute, a conservative think tank in Seattle that is the leading proponent for intelligent design, said it has compiled a list of more than 400 scientists, including 70 biologists, who are skeptical about evolution.

"The fact is that a significant number of scientists are extremely skeptical that Darwinian evolution can explain the origins of life," said John West, associate director of the organization's Center for Science and Culture.


[Links inserted by PH:]
Letter from Bruce Alberts on March 4, 2005. President of the National Academy of Sciences.
AAAS Board Resolution on Intelligent Design Theory.
Statements from Scientific and Scholarly Organizations. Sixty statements, all supporting evolution.


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: bush; bush43; crevolist; darwinisdead; evolution; intelligentdesign; science; scienceeducation
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To: colorado tanker

Wow! You too?


321 posted on 08/02/2005 9:01:23 AM PDT by PatrickHenry (Felix, qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas. The List-O-Links is at my homepage.)
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To: mlc9852
Almost all of us on this thread have debated the issue of evolution ad nauseam. None of us have anything new to add, do we? Has anyone's mind been changed by these evo threads? Mine certainly hasn't.

Some lurkers may have. A lot of good information appears in these threads. You may be very closed minded to the subject (I was too when I was a fundie) but most people are pretty open minded.

322 posted on 08/02/2005 9:01:58 AM PDT by JeffAtlanta
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To: JeffAtlanta

Why would God say he created the world and everything in it if he didn't?


323 posted on 08/02/2005 9:02:20 AM PDT by mlc9852
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To: TonyRo76; Dumb_Ox
If we were just animals that arose randomly from watery blobs => fish => toads => screaming smelly simians, then the clear-cut lesson is that life itself is random, meaningless and without purpose

That does not follow at all. First of all, the TOE does not say we arose randomly. Random mutation plus natural selection operating according to the laws of nature explain our origin as a species. Notice that random mutation is only one part of the process.

Second of all, the TOE leaves room for belief in a Creator who set up the laws of nature so that an intelligent being who could know Him and love Him would eventually evolve, and then breathed an immortal soul into him once the process was complete. Perhaps God even "tweaked" the process by causing an occaisonal mutuation here and there. If he did this very rarely, the whole process would still appear random to the scientist.

It has been argued, quite convincingly, that randomness in nature is necessary for the existence of free will. If the universe were completely deterministic, then everything would be pre-determined. Thus it would be impossible for any creature to be free to choose anything. How fitting, therefore, that God chose to create us using a process that includes randomness, the very thing that allows us to have free will.

324 posted on 08/02/2005 9:02:45 AM PDT by curiosity
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To: JeffAtlanta

Evolution is simply a word meaning change. The TOE that you are speaking starts with the first replicator/s I presume. That doesn't prevent others from positing hypotheses and theories about evolution pre replicator. And they do just that. So whats the argument about?


325 posted on 08/02/2005 9:02:55 AM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: JeffAtlanta

I'm open minded. I believe the Bible is true.


326 posted on 08/02/2005 9:03:20 AM PDT by mlc9852
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To: Liberal Classic

"However, people who work in ...the educational industry should be considered more authoritative that some random person. "

Wow!

That is one of the wildest posts I have ever read! Anyone else want to jump on the educational industry bandwagon?

(We could really have some fun and talk about educational industry experts v. homeschool parents....now THAT would be fun!)


327 posted on 08/02/2005 9:03:43 AM PDT by ConservativeDude
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To: jwalsh07
In the News/Activism forum, on a thread titled Bush supports 'intelligent design', jwalsh07 wrote: Also known as "chemical evolution" so he gets a pass.

Ahh, but the preceding sentence in the article, "The theory of evolution, first articulated by British naturalist Charles Darwin in 1859, is based on the idea that life organisms developed over time through random mutations and factors in nature that favored certain traits that helped species survive", makes it clear that they are referring the theory of evolution in terms of natural selection, not chemical evolution, stellar evolution, or evolutionary algorithms.

The article is misleading and attempts to make scientists appear less credible.
328 posted on 08/02/2005 9:03:46 AM PDT by Tequila25
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To: doc30
" If man can selectively breed desired traits (at leasted desired by man), why can't natural, environmental factors apply pressures that cause selective breeding on wild populations? That's an underlying concept of evolution and no need to evoke outside control. The only difference is that the natural pressures are just that, natural, and do not have a controller behind them that desires a certain outcome."

Seems like we can agree there - Few here out and out state evolution does not occur - it's just- is that the MAIN cause in the diversity of life??

Many feel we are being seeded by organic matter daily via cosmic dust..sent here perhaps by design LOL

it is great to discuss with those who do not feel so threatened by concepts that are new that they attack the person not the argument. thanks..
329 posted on 08/02/2005 9:04:53 AM PDT by ConsentofGoverned (A sucker is born every minute..what are the voters?)
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To: JeffAtlanta

#####You may be very closed minded to the subject (I was too when I was a fundie)....#####


That wins the ironic quote of the month award.


330 posted on 08/02/2005 9:05:02 AM PDT by puroresu (Conservatism is an observation; Liberalism is an ideology)
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To: jwalsh07
Yup academia is a hot bed of "low tax, pro second-amendment, small government types" in one of the parallel universes. Which one are you in?

Science Faculty

These are generally much more conservative, or libertarian, than the posts around here would have you believe.

All of academia is not flaming liberal.

331 posted on 08/02/2005 9:05:03 AM PDT by Rudder
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To: mlc9852

Including the Exodus refs I posted re slavery?


332 posted on 08/02/2005 9:05:22 AM PDT by From many - one.
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To: From many - one.

Do I believe the Israelites were held in slavery? Yes I do.


333 posted on 08/02/2005 9:06:53 AM PDT by mlc9852
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To: jwalsh07
Chemical evolution does, your argument is with the universities who call it just that in their curricula, not with the poster.

Wrong. All chemical evolutoin is able to explain, thus far, is the emergence of chemicals that are necessary for the sustaining of life.

Furthermore, chemical evolution is a completely different theory from biological evolution, and in standard English, the "theory of evolution" only refers to the latter.

Currently, there is no good testable scientific theory that can explain the origin of life, and every biology textbook I have seen acknowledges it.

334 posted on 08/02/2005 9:07:22 AM PDT by curiosity
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To: mlc9852

Go check those refs...that's not what they are about.


335 posted on 08/02/2005 9:09:28 AM PDT by From many - one.
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To: ohioWfan
You know...........the discussion is over the moment someone brings up the Taliban.

I think this should be an extension/revision of the internet argument "Nazi-mention-rule".

336 posted on 08/02/2005 9:09:30 AM PDT by bobhoskins
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To: RadioAstronomer
Interesting - I also found this site to be interesting:

Big Bang Dissident Scientists

Have a good day.

337 posted on 08/02/2005 9:11:26 AM PDT by trebb ("I am the way... no one comes to the Father, but by me..." - Jesus in John 14:6 (RSV))
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To: curiosity
How fitting, therefore, that God chose to create us using a process that includes randomness, the very thing that allows us to have free will.

Determisim or randomness? Whats the difference? If either is causal then free will doesn't exist.

338 posted on 08/02/2005 9:12:30 AM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: From many - one.
"Evolution is how species differentiate. It has nothing to do with the physical properties of water in relation to life."

That is TRUE..ID however does take into account the whole package of the physical universe and the conditions required for life are not just an accident.

somehow bio 101 just isn't appropriate for that..

hope we can agree that science is a great tool to understanding the wonderful world we have and that overtime the theory's we hold do change to reflect new data

one question why do some organisms never evolve??
even though they are under conditions that have changed over multimillions of years (green algae)- even large animals such as crocks-sharks seem hardly changed??
"
339 posted on 08/02/2005 9:12:31 AM PDT by ConsentofGoverned (A sucker is born every minute..what are the voters?)
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To: PatrickHenry

BFLR = bump for later reading. This should get interesting.


340 posted on 08/02/2005 9:13:43 AM PDT by Kevin OMalley (No, not Freeper#95235, Freeper #1165: Charter member, What Was My Login Club.)
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