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Bush supports 'intelligent design'
MyrtleBeach Online ^ | 02 August 2005 | Ron Hutcheson

Posted on 08/02/2005 4:16:26 AM PDT by PatrickHenry

President Bush waded into the debate over evolution and "intelligent design" Monday, saying schools should teach both theories on the creation and complexity of life.

In a wide-ranging question-and-answer session with a small group of reporters, Bush essentially endorsed efforts by Christian conservatives to give intelligent design equal standing with the theory of evolution in the nation's schools.

Bush declined to state his personal views on "intelligent design," the belief that life forms are so complex that their creation cannot be explained by Darwinian evolutionary theory alone, but rather points to intentional creation, presumably divine.

The theory of evolution, first articulated by British naturalist Charles Darwin in 1859, is based on the idea that life organisms developed over time through random mutations and factors in nature that favored certain traits that helped species survive.

Scientists concede that evolution does not answer every question about the creation of life, and most consider intelligent design an attempt to inject religion into science courses.

Bush compared the current debate to earlier disputes over "creationism," a related view that adheres more closely to biblical explanations. While he was governor of Texas, Bush said students should be exposed to both creationism and evolution.

On Monday, the president said he favors the same approach for intelligent design "so people can understand what the debate is about."

The Kansas Board of Education is considering changes to encourage the teaching of intelligent design in Kansas schools, and some are pushing for similar changes across the country.

"I think that part of education is to expose people to different schools of thought," Bush said. "You're asking me whether or not people ought to be exposed to different ideas. The answer is 'yes.'"

The National Academy of Sciences and the American Association for the Advancement of Science both have concluded there is no scientific basis for intelligent design and oppose its inclusion in school science classes. [Note from PH: links relevant to those organizations and their positions on ID are added by me at the end of this article.]

Some scientists have declined to join the debate, fearing that amplifying the discussion only gives intelligent design more legitimacy.

Advocates of intelligent design also claim support from scientists. The Discovery Institute, a conservative think tank in Seattle that is the leading proponent for intelligent design, said it has compiled a list of more than 400 scientists, including 70 biologists, who are skeptical about evolution.

"The fact is that a significant number of scientists are extremely skeptical that Darwinian evolution can explain the origins of life," said John West, associate director of the organization's Center for Science and Culture.


[Links inserted by PH:]
Letter from Bruce Alberts on March 4, 2005. President of the National Academy of Sciences.
AAAS Board Resolution on Intelligent Design Theory.
Statements from Scientific and Scholarly Organizations. Sixty statements, all supporting evolution.


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: bush; bush43; crevolist; darwinisdead; evolution; intelligentdesign; science; scienceeducation
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To: mlc9852

Many what?

Not biologists, and they're the only ones studying it.

None of the other crowd had produced one viable study despite having pnty of money to do so. The so-called Discovery Institute had discovered nothing. Neither the Moonies nr the Islamic Fundamentalists have done anything but yammer, and, of course, their motives might be considered sspect.


221 posted on 08/02/2005 8:08:20 AM PDT by From many - one.
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To: ohioWfan
You know...........the discussion is over the moment someone brings up the Taliban.

Yet you guys have no problem trying over and over again to link evolution to Marxism - which is ludicrous. Why the hypocrisy?

Could you point out exactly how fundies are different than the taliban? Don't try to bring up terrorism as fundies have engaged in a little bit of that at abortion clinics already. It just hasn't reached nearly the same scale.

222 posted on 08/02/2005 8:09:16 AM PDT by JeffAtlanta
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To: Rudder

"Bush can't be that stupid, can he?"


First and foremost...and like all politicians, Bush is one.


223 posted on 08/02/2005 8:09:30 AM PDT by Blzbba (For a man who does not know to which port he is sailing, no wind is favorable - Seneca)
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To: Junior
"Miracles stand outside the realm of science (they cannot be tested or replicated)."

except the miracle of Creation.

JM
224 posted on 08/02/2005 8:10:00 AM PDT by JohnnyM
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To: ohioWfan
You're very defensive. I pinged you because you were the one Wildhorsewhatever was responding to.

Ah, I see. And what made the response of "Wildhorsewhatever" any different than mine, that I could know you were not lumping me into your broad generalizations.

Sorry that your feelings got hurt.

I'm sure you are. I'm sitting here crying, wondering how I could avoid the abuse!

Oh, this is an internet forum? I can just close the page if I actually get my feelings hurt?

(If you are ACTUALLY worried about my feeling, don't worry ... I find these discussions to be great fun, and I hope no one is actually going away from these EVO/ID threads feeling miserable all day!)

225 posted on 08/02/2005 8:10:33 AM PDT by bobhoskins (Weeping gently, as I have been admonished for thinking a post pinged to me might refer to me ...)
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To: ohioWfan
Planned Parenthood and population control directly tied to Darwinian survival of the fittest. Second example. Euthanasia. Directly tied to Darwin and evolution. (Both leftist politics).

You know that is BS right? The Theory of Evolution NOTHING to do with either of those. How did find a way to link those to evolution?

226 posted on 08/02/2005 8:11:31 AM PDT by JeffAtlanta
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To: thompsonsjkc; odoso; animoveritas; DaveTesla; mercygrace; Laissez-faire capitalist; ...

Moral Absolutes Ping.

I find this very, very good news.

Good for President Bush.

Freepmail me if you want/off this pinglist.

(Yesterday, I think, there was a thread entitled something like "Don't teach faith as though it were science". Well, we shouldn't teach science as though it has to be blindly believed. But that's what the folks who come unglued about mentioning ID want. A click of the heels and a stiff salute to Darwin.)


227 posted on 08/02/2005 8:11:37 AM PDT by little jeremiah (A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, are incompatible with freedom. P. Henry)
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To: JeffAtlanta
... examples of how evolution has been used in a political manner.

Ah, but it will be. Well, not evolution, but creationism -- and ID too, because ID is nothing but closeted creationism. Next round of Congressional elections, just watch as the MSM has fun with the issue. It's about all they have to try to make conservatives look like idiots (because we're right on every other issue), so they'll use it every chance they can get. Which is why some of us have been saying:

Creationism is a cancer on conservatism

228 posted on 08/02/2005 8:11:53 AM PDT by PatrickHenry (Felix, qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas. The List-O-Links is at my homepage.)
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To: mlc9852

"Then skip my posts like I skip yours."

Res ipsit loquitur


229 posted on 08/02/2005 8:13:03 AM PDT by From many - one.
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To: JohnnyM

Which simply means Creation wasn't a miracle.


230 posted on 08/02/2005 8:13:08 AM PDT by Junior (Just because the voices in your head tell you to do things doesn't mean you have to listen to them)
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To: From many - one.

I know that evolution doesn't address the Big Bang, but those that adhere to the Biblical accounts of Man being created by God, would also have to tie in that God also created the heavens and the earth, which seems to contradict the Big Bang. While separate at one end of the argument (evolution) they are tied at the other.


231 posted on 08/02/2005 8:13:21 AM PDT by trebb ("I am the way... no one comes to the Father, but by me..." - Jesus in John 14:6 (RSV))
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To: Junior
How does God intervene?

Many ways. Sometimes supernaturally, sometimes in more normal ways.

Is it through natural processes?

It can be

Did He foresee the need for intervention prior to the creation of the universe and thus built His intervention into the "prgram?"

Quite possible

232 posted on 08/02/2005 8:13:33 AM PDT by Asphalt (Join my NFL ping list! FReepmail me| The best things in life aren't things)
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To: JohnnyM

Please define "Christian" in your terms.

For me, Evagelicals are not the only Christians.


233 posted on 08/02/2005 8:17:59 AM PDT by From many - one.
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To: All
Intelligent Design Clubs are popping-up all around the World at high-schools and universities:

ID Clubs

Definition of Intelligent Design from ARN.org:

What is Intelligent Design?

Join The Free Speech on Evolution Campaign

You're not alone...

Over 400 Scientists Convinced by New Scientific Evidence That Darwinian Evolution is Deficient

234 posted on 08/02/2005 8:18:15 AM PDT by Michael_Michaelangelo (The best theory is not ipso facto a good theory. Lots of links on my homepage...)
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To: bobhoskins
Let me just inform you that the debate we are in have been going on for centuries.............no, make that millenia.

The argument about whether Being is Being, or Being is God, and causation, is not new.

Those who are afraid that ID means 'religion' are ignorant of the past (not surprisingly).

I challenge you to look deeper into the philosophy of what you have been taught is science, and its roots.......that is IF you are really interested in learning about the truth.

The science you have been taught in class (you did take science in college, didn't you?) has political and philosophical underpinnings that you have not been taught.

Try to find out what they are.

235 posted on 08/02/2005 8:18:55 AM PDT by ohioWfan (If my people which are called by my name will humble themselves and pray......)
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To: Junior

"Nope. How does God intervene? Is it through natural processes? Did He foresee the need for intervention prior to the creation of the universe and thus built His intervention into the "prgram?""

Your ignorance of Scripture is now blaring. Throughout Scripture, God intervenes according to His good pleasure. He does not do so through "natural" processes which I take to mean processes which look natural to the naked eye. Take for one obvious example near the beginning of the book, the entire episode of the plagues, the flight from Egypt, the crossing of the Red Sea and so on. These events were obviously not "natural" and even Pharoah knew before it was over that they were not natural.

It just gets worse from there. History is taught in Scripture not as natural history, but an account of sustained divine intervention. If you read the Psalms and the minor Prophets, it goes even further, in that it attributes things like the weather to God's active intervention - and to whether or not man is obedient to His law or not. Then....obviously the New Testament miracles are not a natural part of any program. Water into wine, lepers healed spontaneously and instantly, resurrections of Lazarus and Jesus. Moreover, throughout Scripture believers are encouraged to pray, and Scripture teaches that prayer itself can be the intermediate cause by which God does something.

On the theological point, obviously God in some sense foresees all of this...He ordains both ends and means. He allows us the privilege of participating in some of those ends and means, and that is what we experience as human freedom comes in. That is why we experience that prayer does seem to "change things."

The worldview I have given a very brief sketch above is utterly incompatible with the evolutionary worldview.

Look, it's not skin off my back if you reject Scripture. But I am troubled with this mushy thinking that says you believe in Scripture and in evolution. At least Jefferson had the guts and intellectual honesty to throw away most of his Bible.

What I am looking for in this discussion is for people to take firm, resolute, consistent and well-thought out positions. That is lacking on this thread. When I was a grad student in philosophy many many years ago, I used to love to read Anthony Flew...he was a hardened atheist and a hardened anti-socialist. He was just the greatest in terms of rigor. I was (and am) a believer, so I didn't agree with his attacks on religion. But I always appreciated his rigor and his integrity. That is what I look for in serious thinkers. (Of course to make this more interesting is that Flew is now a theist...that is a whole nuther topic, though).


236 posted on 08/02/2005 8:19:54 AM PDT by ConservativeDude
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To: JeffAtlanta

By studying, Jeff. Try it.


237 posted on 08/02/2005 8:20:08 AM PDT by ohioWfan (If my people which are called by my name will humble themselves and pray......)
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To: PatrickHenry
Ah, but it will be. Well, not evolution, but creationism -- and ID too, because ID is nothing but closeted creationism. Next round of Congressional elections, just watch as the MSM has fun with the issue.

The problem is that the Creationists are going to start winning some these battles. Each win will convince them that they have a larger and larger grip on the republican party and they will be more and more aggressive in pushing their agenda.

That will scare off many voters who see Fundies gaining control of the country as a bad thing. Eventually breakthroughs in stem cell technology will start coming from Asia and people here will start wondering why we took a back seat to all of this.

Since the republican congress pretty much just pays lips service to fiscal conservatives anyway, many will just stay at home or even switch.

States like Florida and Georgia (9th biggest state and moving up) which have huge transplant populations will be lost to republicans.

238 posted on 08/02/2005 8:20:37 AM PDT by JeffAtlanta
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To: ohioWfan
By studying, Jeff. Try it.

Nice cop out. Make a proclamation and then refuse to back it up when challenged.

239 posted on 08/02/2005 8:21:34 AM PDT by JeffAtlanta
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To: bobhoskins
I seriously pinged you because you posted what White posted to.

Are we being cynical today, bob? :)

Sorry........but I have much to do today.

God bless you.......God bless President Bush.........and God bless America! Land of the free (at least for some of us! :)

240 posted on 08/02/2005 8:22:20 AM PDT by ohioWfan (If my people which are called by my name will humble themselves and pray......)
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