In a blow to the FairTax Fanboys, the Panel had Treasury run the numbers for a NRST with the FairTax base, a "prebate," and the current level of evasion. They came up with a 34% exclusive rate, (25.4% inclusive) just to replace the individual and business income taxes. That doesn't even include payroll taxes!
Needless to say, the proposed FairTax rate of 29.87% (23% inclusive) to replace income and payroll taxes is, and always has been, a fantasy.
ping
The amt tax was put into place when the tax rates were as high as 70% and there were a lot of tax shelters to counter the high tax rates. To counter people paying no taxes a SECOND tax calculation evolved. It is no longer needed as the high tax rates and tax shelters are gone.
ping
A bit surprising, but I am not shocked. The fairtax numbers will calculated by paid for whores. I have no respect for any of the fairtax experts. Their numbers were so transparently flawed.
Which shows that the government is spending way too much money, which we already knew. But using that as a basis to attack a national sales tax is just shooting the messenger.
BTW before you get too juiced up about defeating the FairTax or buying the figures wholesale as put of by the Panel staff, you might look at the Panel paper called "Benefits of Tax Reform" and explain how your favorite Nightmare Flat/VAT notions stand up ...
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"BENEFITS OF TAX REFORM
Do we need a tax law and regulations that are almost 20,000 pages long and at least 10 million words?
This is 10 times longer than the Bible, and longer than the complete works of Shakespeare.
Is it fair that more and more Americans have to hire professional tax preparers because they cannot understand the tax law and they are afraid of being punished if they make a mistake?
Do we need a tax system that discourages growth, innovation and productivity of American businesses?
SIMPLER
# Reduces the number of lines on the tax form so that Americans don't have to spend as much time filling out forms.
# Reduces the number of pages in the tax law so that it is easier to understand.
# Americans will spend less time filing, keeping records, talking to the IRS, and doing their taxes, so that they can spend more time with their families or doing what they want.
# Fewer forms and simpler instructions mean: less hassle, less agony, and more free time.
# Simplifying the tax law will eliminate the fear that many Americans have of making a mistake and being confronted or audited by the IRS.
# Fewer Americans will have to pay an accountant or buy software to prepare their taxes.
# Americans won't feel like they are "missing out" on deductions/credits that they are entitled to.
# Americans deserve a reliable tax system that doesn’t change every year.
FAIRER
# Americans who play by the rules should feel confident they and their neighbors are all paying their fair share.
# Eliminates loopholes that some taxpayers use to avoid paying taxes.
# Makes the tax system more transparent, so Americans understand the tax system and their tax obligations.
# Americans shouldn't be forced to make decisions about how to manage their money because of the tax system.
# Removes the hidden tax hikes and gimmicks, such as the AMT and the phase-outs of family tax benefits.
ECONOMIC GROWTH AND JOB CREATION
# Reforming the tax system helps the economy, and at the end of the day, that is like getting a pay raise. If the GDP increases by 3%, it’s like getting a 3% pay raise.
# Simplifying and increasing savings opportunities, promotes economic security and helps Americans realize their dreams.
# The tax system should not discourage innovation and productivity.
# Small and large businesses are powerful engines of growth in our economy. Allowing businesses to keep more of their profits will allow them to expand their businesses and hire more employees.
# Encouraging investment allows companies to grow and create more and better paying jobs.
# Updating our antiquated international tax system makes it easier for American companies to do business and be more competitive internationally."
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I really don't see much there that qualifies either of your "plans" (which aren't anything but hypothetical theories anyway). Or for that matter much that qualifies any "real" Flat or VAT. It surely isn't surprising that the panel would say "deep six" the AMT if you looked at some of the horror stories in the Comments to the Panel. That makes the cheese a bit binding for them with revenue neutrality on the platter. We'll see how the FairTax shakes out in the peanut gallery before too long and I think you may be surprised. If I were you I wouldn't put too much credence in the Panel's staff figures.
Not to worry, though, Nightie, the real - FairTax supporters will just keep on working away until it passes - despite the efforts of guys like you. Most of us know how beneficial it would be for the country even if you don't.
I paid about 9% FIT (not inluding FICA et al) last year - the day I am hit with AMT, I quit.
"Most of the discussion today was about reforming the current system. There was not a lot of talk about radical reform."
Guess that means the Nightmare tax is out, then.
:-(
If line 26 is less than line 22 but more than line 19 - enter line 25 plus 10% of line 12 if your youngest dependant has more than one musical instrument but brown bags his/her school lunch.
According to the same analysis your preferred VAT tax would also have the same rates. See appendix A.
(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
Hey...here's an idea....
CUT SPENDING!
The AMT is a parallel tax system created in 1969; it was enacted after it was revealed that a handful of extremely wealthy Americans paid no income tax.
And continued to not pay tax afterward because their income was derived in a large part from tax free Muni portfolios, i.e. the sheep got sheared easily with the class warfare shill...
I am for repealing ALL personal income tax.
.
You have GOT to be kidding. Do you really ascribe to the notion that we govern ourselves? Do you?
Notice how the lefty press always feels the need to couch the impact of a tax repeal by announcing the impact over a 10 year time frame. Conversely, they tend to minimize the impacts of a tax increase by tallying the cost per day for each person in the U.S....taxpayer or not. The agenda is obvious.
If the flat tax and fair tax aren't going anywhere then scrap the
AMT and estate taxes and pass a law to lower federal spending by 1 % of .5% per year for the next 10 or 20 years, or until deficit spending stops and the national debt is reduced to a reasonable level.
Why? It was just found money in the first place. Replace it, hell, they should be forced to REFUND the amounts stolen from the employed in contravention of the law's original intent. Let them instead cut whatever socialist wet dream programs they funded with this money they admit they never should have had in the first place.