Posted on 02/26/2005 3:47:17 PM PST by Hildy
For all of those who have called me every imaginable name because I dare to suggest that there are some things worse than death...I don't wish you on you anything that poor woman goes through on a minute by minute basis. Because you know so much, and are so sure that you are right because you are all so freakin self-righteous...I'm leaving FreeRepublic because I no longer want to be a part of something that has become so twisted. Hannity is right, this website has been hijacked. It was a good run...but we'll find another place. Save your jabs, I won't be reading them. To those who have privately agreed with me, and there are many, thank you. I'm just worn out and frankly, don't even care what most here think.
I was in extreme pain and extraordinary discomfort, completely terrified -- yet deep in there was a made more awake than ever -- an incredible desire to live, no matter what that "living" meant.
You want to beleive you know or that medical experts and scientists know, that without the "higher" brain there is no consciousness, no desire for live. At least I hope that is what you'd want to believe.
For otherwise, we are back to the "off Terri because she's such a damn burden on the rest of us" camp. Not a camp I can tolerate.
So on the basis of your last post and that optimistic expectation of why you'd think it's okay to let her go -- I'd say you are wrong in that belief, and so to are the scientists who so rashly claim. Know at the least that it is a belief and not a hard fact!
And even if your hubris -- like theirs -- that overwrought false confidence in what you and they think you know -- does not allow you to differientiate desired imagined belief from hard knowable fact -- even then consider an argument on appearances and the dangers of engendering callousness to life.
Terri looks human. She looks alive. Allowing -- for the sake of this argument -- her soul is long gone (which it is not) and she has no sense of pain (not really knowable) -- then consider the general effect of offing such decaying bodies of mere meat. Becuase that meat looks like a living human, by slaughtering it we train ourselves to be callous to humans to human life. The psychological and sociological effects are inescapable.
Consider the raw sociology and psychology of family and nursing home economics. Once the accounts are emptied or near emptied , both have an economic motive to see a human as mere near-dead meat. Of course, the demon of econonmics says "She's brain dead -- she's really, really dead, already."
The line of what is called "brain dead" will ever be lowered, as each new piece of meat is slaughtered.
It's not a novel idea; it's denying the rest of us the right to post and comment on any thread we choose on this forum. That's the way it works here.
It may be a novel idea to you, but I suggest you go somewhere else and start your own forum. You can leave the same way you got here if it bothers you when others have ideas that differ from yours.
You and I have disagreed on a lot of things over the years, but I have always found you to be a honest debater and able to make your points with valid information, whether I agreed with them or not.
Don't let these people get you down; reading one of the threads yesterday, I saw one of them saying that they didn't like so and so on "our threads." That says it all, doesn't it?
It's turned into a cult, IMO. And if you disagree or dare to ask a question, you must be destroyed.
As an example, I give you the following:
Grow up.
Are you for killing Terri, too?
This is NOT debate; this is using this forum to further THEIR personal agenda; I suspect a lot of these people will be gone when and if this story is over.
Unfortunately for those of us, they don't seem to want us on "their threads" in order to gain any information; evidently the only "information" that is relevant to this particular story is their side. Certainly there are some people on those threads who are capable of rational thought AND discourse; they seem to be the people we've fought other battles with in the last years.
In closing, don't leave. We need you here to keep the rest of us who have a tendancy to go off on a tangent in line by asking pertinent questions to bring us back into focus.
I'd be damned if I'd giving them the satisfaction of running me off. I have a feeling you feel the same way. :-)
Not the case at all......
Your fears about future changes, and a trend toward legalized active Euthanasia could only occur if the legislature is forced to deal with this issue.
The reason they would need to intervene is because of public unrest as a result of over the top arguments and interventions that may include lawlessness.
That would indeed force them into a one size fits all typical government action.
But they would only do that if the issue was out of control and out of the private family arena and into the public and the media.
But, that seems to be exactly what is being created here!
It is so often true that there is a law of unintended consequences that result in the things you were trying to prevent.
It is exactly what may well happen in this case.
Unfortunately I find I have repeated myself. I don't like to do that, but in the face of repetitions I have no choice.
I was a bit shocked at the way folks were treating one another. Free Republic should be able to accommodate everyone. We should be able to discuss freely and disagree freely. To offer this as an education not a guilt fest.
The passion on both sides is commendable. There are many out there who have little time to catch the news and choose to come online to get a quick view and some even come to Free Republic (lurkers) to see what is going on in the world. I would like for them to read an honest, lively and respectful thread on the issues at hand.
While I still feel comfortable in my point of view I have enjoyed reading the background that some Freepers have on the case. I want to leave the thread knowing I have exchanged an intellectual exchange of facts and hope that in the process I did not in anyway have the reader feeling guilt or anger at what I had to say.
This case brings out the best and worst in folks. I respect those who feel that Terri should remain on the feeding tube and that folks feel she has a quality of life.
I beg to differ respectfully. Putting aside the emotional jargon from the parents and the husband -- someone dropped the ball. To allow this to go on for so long to my way of thinking is a tragedy.
I do not want to hear what a schmuck the husband is, we can agree on that but really he is her husband and as such there are rights he has and should not have been trumped by the parents. The courts have looked at this case every which way possible. When do we allow this to take it's natural course?
I have said it before and I am sure I will say it again, we may in the end have to agree to disagree and do so respectfully, don't our fellow Freepers deserve that courtesy?
Sure it's an important issue, but it is hardly a convincing argument to label everyone on the other-side of the argument a Nazi, troll or the spawn of Satan.
Killing is never an act of compassion, except in the case of just execution of criminals.
Are you for killing Terri, too?
This is NOT debate; this is using this forum to further THEIR personal agenda; I suspect a lot of these people will be gone when and if this story is over.
I agree. I've been thinking to myself that once this saga finishes, these posters with their self-righteous cultist indignation will just leave the rest of this board alone. It's hard to avoid this for two reasons 1.) There are too many posts written up about it and 2.) Even if actively participating in these threads, it's hard to engage in robust civil debate with those you may disagree with, even if your debating civilly within a modest amount of reason and above all, decorum. I hate to see good posters just leave for merely expressing an opinion on the matter. I for one wouldn't be persuaded to jump on their bandwagon if they're jumping on my back.
I have never understood this type of politics; I mean, do they think they don't need to get the support of others behind them?
There's not much difference in this and being called an "open border, illegal lover" is you don't agree with the slash and burners at those threads, or being called an "Obama lover" if you don't think Keyes hung the moon.
I was a bit shocked at the way folks were treating one another. Free Republic should be able to accommodate everyone. We should be able to discuss freely and disagree freely. To offer this as an education not a guilt fest.
Good points, and I will tell you one thing. This topic has been very revealing about a certain number of posters I've grown to respect over the time I've been registered here at FR. I'm confident in the fact of an old saying, "Time heals all wounds", and I think over time, some of that respect may be built back up again.
All points of view should be represented. That's the mark of a good debate. It's absolutely unfair to be childishly labeled a troll, a Nazi, or a murderer, for expressing and elucidating an opinion.
There's not much difference in this and being called an "open border, illegal lover" is you don't agree with the slash and burners at those threads,
I've been called everything under the Sun for merely siding with the argument that we should beef up and enforce the law of the land, with regards to the illegal immigrant/open border sitution, worst of which being a terrorist sympathizer. I think it's absolutely wrong to take the militant approach, for a variety of reasons.
It's like I said a couple days ago, the Democrats wonder why they got beat at the polls again in November, because they spent 3.5 years attacking President Bush, and calling Bush's base stupid and ignorant. They didn't persuade anyone on the fence to join their side, they only made converts for the Republicans with their rhetoric and their actions.
Well said but please don't diss bjs1779. We had an interesting discussion.
You're right JeanS. I didn't mean to step on anyone's toes, bjs1779's included. For that I apologize.
I find this pattern uncalled for.
If posters here have problems with others, carry the argument with THEM, NOT others who happen to cross their paths.
As I was verbally assulted for having shown up for an opus that, to my mind, was misguided, I agree Free Republic should be a place of decorum and respect.
I was treated as someone to pounce on for the fun of it.
I found those who engaged in this behaivour continued with others.
And felt justified in doing so.
You may not know me. That is no excuse to "jump" me.
That is impossible. I am the most brilliant person here! : )
I always enjoy Hildy and Howlin and of course Buckhead....
I hope Hildy comes back. I know I have been attacked and flamed from time to time. But FreeRepublic is addictive and I always seem to come back for my FIX.
Yep, I share your opinion.
You? What on earth did you do to get flamed?
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