Posted on 02/06/2005 6:45:18 AM PST by presidio9
In front of a cheering male audience, two young women wearing only bras and panties throw themselves into a mud-filled plastic kiddie pool and roll around in a wild wrestling match.
At one point a man in the audience raises a water bottle and douses the entwined pair.
At another, a "referee" moves in to break up the scantily clad grapplers.
A young blond lifts her T-shirt to expose her breasts. A brunette turns her back to the camera and exposes her thong undies.
These scenes, taken from 30 photos leaked to the Daily News, could have been snapped at an out-of-control frat party.
But this happened a world away from any American college.
The photos were taken in Camp Bucca, the military prison at Umm Qasr in the hot sands of southern Iraq near the Kuwaiti border.
The women are not coeds but military policewomen who had left their uniforms in a pile not far off.
The men are soldiers, too. Most of them wore T-shirts emblazoned with Army logos, but at least one was still wearing his uniform.
Some were sergeants, including the referee, and some allegedly were drunk.
The photos were taken last Oct. 30, in the same period when enemy detainees were being transferred to Camp Bucca from Abu Ghraib, the prison made notorious by photos of Americans torturing naked Iraqis.
The Camp Bucca pictures document no such abuses.
But they do show what experts called a disconcerting lapse in discipline at a time when Army brass was touting the camp as a model of reform.
"It was basically a goodbye party for those of us who were leaving and a welcome party for those coming in," the alleged referee, Sgt. Emil Ganim of the 160th Military Police Battalion, told The News. "It was a chance for people to blow off some steam before coming home after spending a year in a combat zone."
But one participant described less-benign behavior.
Two sergeants, she said, told her "they had been lending out their room for soldiers to have sex" - a serious infraction of military regulations.
One female soldier, a prison guard with the 160th Military Police Battalion, was photographed baring her breast and showing off her thong panties.
The picture apparently was taken in the room of one of those sergeants, an investigator reported.
The witness told investigators that two high-ranking noncommissioned officers, a first sergeant and a master sergeant, were present. She "noted that these NCOs had been drinking and were noticeably drunk," the report said.
Ganim said American civilians at the camp also participated in the party, and "if anybody had liquor, it was them."
Ganim has since returned to his civilian job as a deputy sheriff in Leon County, Fla.
"It appears that this event was allegedly coordinated by NCOs [sergeants] of the 160th," according to the initial investigation.
One of the soldiers told investigators the mud-wrestling match was underway when she arrived.
"She took off her uniform and joined the other female soldiers that were wrestling," the report says. But "once soldiers started asking for the females to expose themselves [she and two of the other wrestlers] put their uniforms back on and left the area."
But at least one woman was not deterred.
Deanna Allen, a 19-year-old prison guard with the 105th MP Battalion, smiled and lifted her T-shirt. Photos show a man standing close to her and leering at her breasts while another G.I. snaps pictures.
"From what I understand they dared her to do it," said Allen's grandmother, Luci Tomlin, in Black Mountain, N.C. "It was a loose moment. She is a strong-headed young lady. Sometimes she can be a little irrational."
Allen, who is still stationed in Iraq, did not respond to E-mailed questions from The News. She was demoted in rank to private first class.
"A sex party with alcohol that is prohibited would suggest a serious breakdown of military discipline," said Washington-based lawyer Eugene Fidell, a military-justice expert. "Just how it would be handled would be determined by the commander, who has very broad discretion in situations like this.
Fidell said punishments could range from "a good chewing out to loss of rank" for enlisted personnel and "a letter or career-killing transfer" for officers who allowed it to happen.
Those your definitions/comparisons and incorrect.
Actually,one could just as easily have stated what you did,but reversed.
Moral/s is defined as:" of,pertaining to,or concerned with right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong; founded on the fundamental principles of right conduct rather than legalities,enactment...."
Ethic/s :"the body of moral principles or values governing or distinctive of a particular culture or group....;a complex of moralconcepts held, or rules of conduct followed by and individual.
Actually I'm not calling for the blood of anyone. If you recall from my earlier posts is that my general theme is that AT WORST what the people in question should get is a reprimand from the skipper and a good old fashioned butt chewing, but not ENTIELY excusable either. How is that calling for blood? I've been in that AOR many a time as well as well as several others. Many a SPEC 4 has been busted down to PFC for being stupid and it's not the end of the world.
And, with all of your rantings, you've never let the forum know about your own service? Well 'lil fella what is it. Playing GI Joe w mommie or have all those thousands of hours playing Counterstike and Halo on the X-box qualified you as a real live Green Beret/Seal/Ranger/Ninja?
Spoken like a true gentleman, axes. I do the the differnces between the rank. SInce this case was seen and disciplined long before it became national news, I have to assume that the CO did his job.
You are right that there are differences detween AD and NG/Reserves...but there aren't supposed to be, especially when they are utilized as AD units in theater.
You don't care what a Colonel says cause you are the king of the mall ninjas, right Coop?
I don't go for "moral equivalency" style arguments when it comes to behavior in uniform. I'm no prude, and God knows I've seen my share of debauchery in the military in my day.........but damn it, not in a war zone, and not while in uniform.
I don't advocate jail time or any such nonsense; never suggested anything that extreme. However, I don't give a damn who you are........once you raise that right hand of yours and take that oath, you assume responsibilities and, like it or not, standards of behavior that you WILL live up to.
I'm a father of seven, all but one in their teens or twenties. I know how young people behave, I know how people under stress behave when allowed to decompress. In the service, I've seen more than my share pass out drunk, either in or out of the arms of a naked woman. Not much I haven't seen, so I don't need to be lectured on human behavior.
No, some bimbo flashing her tits or her thong in front of her fellow GI's is not soldier material. Does that mean she should be flogged or jailed? No. Does it mean that she is not fit to wear the uniform of MY military? Yes.
BTW........save the shots at the Academy. I graduated from there 28 years ago. I won't apologize for what some dipsticks did a few years ago, or even recently.......but I get the Association of Graduates newsletters, and I damned sure know what changes have been implemented to rectify those problems........and every bit as importantly, what we "older" alumni have been VERY vocal about to the current Academy regime in upholding the standards of our school. We clean up our own messes.
The Army is doing the same, and they damned well should.
The men of my era,had far less choice......THEY WERE DRAFTED!
Col Hunt was calm,but made very good points and not just because I agreed with them.They were sensible and he didn't call for any of those people to be court marshaled.Col Hunt said that he is concerned by the lack of discipline,from the top down and the fact that these people had cameras. It's about respect;something you obviously have no comprehension of.
What "perturbed" me, is you and others who have made the comments you all have,to this thread.
What makes you a "noob" is being here for only 4 months.
You wanna play the pissing game? Okay...we've had a computer since 1981.
Your era had a choice - college, enlist, be passive and get drafted, hardship waivers too. We are all stuck with what we have at the time.
This is 2005. There are cameras in cell phones. Most folks have disposable ones and camcorders in the AOR. Big mistake if they are not allowed to take pictures.
You wish to focus on this topic and there are other are folks who have opinions that differ from yours based on experiences. If this is the worst the press can dig up, as it seems to be, there is little to worry about. This event is inconsequential and being blown way out of proportion by the press to make the DoD appear bad. That includes the talking heads who may not have the best interests of anyone but themselves on display. The press is presenting this to get a rise out of folks like yourself because most of the major operations are successes. You worry and get upset about rumors and propaganda, when overall there is no quagmire for the press to report. That is what I find offensive.
You brought up the noob reference. I have lurked here since the mid 90's. And read the newsgroups on Byte prior to that. How many times has Freerepublic been rebuilt 7 or 8? Most of the folks who originally posted here got kicked by the mods for whatever reason. I recall Jim had voice chat software for a while -do you recall that? Dont assume everyone is a noob.
He also said that they shouldn't have a camera in a theatre of war.And I want to know why you think that everyone should/does have a cell/picture phone with them.
You started this with claiming that people of my generation had more choices,than today's group of the same age.They didn't. THERE IS NO DRAFT NOW.
I've focused on peoples' remarks,which show that they lack moral turpitude and have little understanding of this matter;just fuff it off as no big deal,when it really is a problem.No,not an end of the world kind of problem,but yes,a problem.
You're still a noob...even if you were a lurker.
I remember when FR's background was black.I remember THE ALLEY.
And I KNOW that all/most of the original members were NOT summarily banned.
You don't sound credible at all,vis-a-vis,early FR history,BTW. You're going to have to prove it to me,with facts about old timers and old times,before I believe that you lurked here from the start.
I thought that Marine should have received a medal! Don't confuse situations here. That young woman was from the community just south of where I live and it's been in the news a lot here. She brought disgrace to the military and was punished for it. My opinion of it, as I said, has no bearing on anything, other than my opinion. Defend the deserving.
Didn't say that.
Funny, ain't it, little fella, that practically the entire forum can figure out what service I was in? But not you.
Suddenly you're not so high and mighty anymore. :-D
You're not very good at following rules there, Doc. And yet you're gonna judge those serving in a combat zone? Tsk tsk.
Tell me again how infantile I am, please.
Putting young men an women together in stressful situations far from home invites trouble, laws or not. It's akin to requiring high school students, male & female, to share the same locker room for gym class, then punishing them when problems occur.
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